Addons, Pricing, Etc (Disappointed)
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I'm REALLY disappointed at Concrete5 for allowing so say "developers" make half assed addons...the paid ones & the free ones. I'm also disappointed at Concrete5 for giving its customers/supporters the "koolaid w/no sugar" & "cereal w/no milk" program. How do you have a open source program that supports sub pages but do not provide drop down menus? Now we have to depend on an outsider who is probably still learning the in's & out's of concrete5 to make a stable addon (ie. drop down menu) & then have the nerve to charge for it.
Why would I pay $65 for cometchat when you can put Wibya? sheesh!!! DEVELOPERS STOP TAKING THESE PEOPLE MONIES!!!!!
Some of these addons that are being charged for need to be free of charge, not all, BUT SOME OF THEM. The some of free addons is below "basic functionality", they look incomplete.
So, my question: please send me to a video that will tell me step to step how to create addons for concrete5. I've learned to make a theme from scratch (pats self on back) so I want to take it another level.
Why would I pay $65 for cometchat when you can put Wibya? sheesh!!! DEVELOPERS STOP TAKING THESE PEOPLE MONIES!!!!!
Some of these addons that are being charged for need to be free of charge, not all, BUT SOME OF THEM. The some of free addons is below "basic functionality", they look incomplete.
So, my question: please send me to a video that will tell me step to step how to create addons for concrete5. I've learned to make a theme from scratch (pats self on back) so I want to take it another level.
Cool! will check it out your links. Thank You!
& I will be pm'ing you since you are offering the help. you rock!
& I will be pm'ing you since you are offering the help. you rock!
There's a lot of different ways for different people to accomplish a
goal. There's nothing keeping you from building your own drop downs, I
guess short of me putting a video together for you explaining how to
do it in detail...
There's some pretty good how-tos on add-ons and applications that are
worth reading.
The reality (as 12345j points out) is that each add-on is vetted by
the community and us, each comes with support, and there's an awful
lot in concrete5's free core, along with the free add-ons. My
apologies if there are somethings you would like that might cost
money, but I'm afraid you're going to find a lot of that in life.
By the way, your tone, the caps lock, and the whole "developers" air
quote thing comes off as way more insulting than I hope you're trying
to be. Just a heads up. You don't want cometchat? Don't buy it.
"Sheesh" right back at ya.
best wishes
Franz Maruna
CEO - concrete5.org
http://about.me/frz
goal. There's nothing keeping you from building your own drop downs, I
guess short of me putting a video together for you explaining how to
do it in detail...
There's some pretty good how-tos on add-ons and applications that are
worth reading.
The reality (as 12345j points out) is that each add-on is vetted by
the community and us, each comes with support, and there's an awful
lot in concrete5's free core, along with the free add-ons. My
apologies if there are somethings you would like that might cost
money, but I'm afraid you're going to find a lot of that in life.
By the way, your tone, the caps lock, and the whole "developers" air
quote thing comes off as way more insulting than I hope you're trying
to be. Just a heads up. You don't want cometchat? Don't buy it.
"Sheesh" right back at ya.
best wishes
Franz Maruna
CEO - concrete5.org
http://about.me/frz
Oh, I mean't EVERY word I said. But I will do much more research on adding my own addons. Some of the addons I do see use other open source scripts that I have used in the past before I became familiar w/CMS such as the Nivo slider, light boxes gallery, Multimedia box (bumpbox, prettyphoto) & etc. If I can get a grip on concrete5 & how it works as far as adding my own addons I should be able to have my own addons in no time. There are some things I will be purchasing & some things I need to just figure out myself.
Thank you for the speedy reply.
Thank you for the speedy reply.
You could always read Remo's bookhttp://www.concrete5.org/about/blog/concrete5-sightings/book-on-con...
(but its not free)
(but its not free)
Oh I'll pay for the book, it's for a lifetime & not just one site. :) Good Looking.
I can understand your fustration in the sense of investing per site, however if you are a developer or want to be one, sooner or later you will realize that you might want some of your work to be paid off.
At the end of the day if you are building a site that requires some add-ons that will cost you, think about the time your saving and most likely your client will be paying for it anyway.
At the end of the day if you are building a site that requires some add-ons that will cost you, think about the time your saving and most likely your client will be paying for it anyway.
I agree, with revolutiumstudio. If I even need an addon that has somewhat the same functionality (not even half sometimes), it is better just to buy it and add all my custom code on top and remove what I do not need. This usually saves me way more money in time.
Yes, I do understand that, but I'm saying SOME of the paid addons not all of them. Like the membership addons, yes I'm paying for those, not even thinking twice about that but it's the small stuff like facebook addons when you can just get the widget? You understand? To me it's like their taking peoples money because it's available w/just a simple copy & paste for free. I guess I'm asking, where is the integrity?
Oh, yeah I know what you are talking about. Its because they want to get something for it. The minimum is $15 dollars or free, if your going to charge. So like the facebook stuff, maybe $5 dollars should be the price, but they cant. (Trust me this is a good thing they can't, because nothing would be free, everything will be like the apple store, .99, 1.99, 2.99... and so on) So that grey zone you gotta decide if you wanna charge or give it for free. I did my own facebook stuff, and just made blocks for them. I thought about posting them for free, but I did not want to cause, I did not want to start any problems with other developers. So I mean I understand why they charge, but technically you could create your own and post them for free (good to free enterprise and competition)!
EDIT: And for those people who can not code or have the logic/time for it, they rather pay 15 dollars then have a coder make it and charge 100 and wait to have it built and supply no support. So it still works out for most people.
EDIT: And for those people who can not code or have the logic/time for it, they rather pay 15 dollars then have a coder make it and charge 100 and wait to have it built and supply no support. So it still works out for most people.
Yeah, the only reason for that is because the information is not being provided for noncoders. But I can change that. :) Nothing but copy & pasting. Step by step instructions. But I fully understand everything you are saying & glad you understand my point of view. I've always been a "do it yourself" chick so when I see things I know I can get for free & of better quality I get aggravated. I don't like anyone pimpin me out of my money.
Guys, there's plenty of free add-ons to compliment the paid ones. You
don't want to spend $15 on an image gallery I paid my guys to make?
Fine with me, use a free one.
Calling someone's integrity in question because you don't see the
value of their products is inappropiate. Clearly someone else does
find value there.
Saying concrete5 isn't open source or was conceived as crippleware is
inaccurate, and it makes me sad. I challenge you to go find ANY cms
that gives you as robust a permission system, custom attribute system,
and other core framework features out of the box (for free in every
sense) as concrete5. Search our marketplace for "permissions" and
you're going to find nothing that changes the way the core permissions
work. Search Drupal's module directory for "permissions" and you're
going to find 300 unique takes on extending/rethinking them. Install
any of those, and who knows what the rest of your site will do. Now as
a developer, that could be the kind of wild west you're looking for.
If your time is infinite and your interest is more conceptual than
practical, that "free above all else" approach is probably a perfect
fit. However if you're just building a website and want something that
works tonight, or you get your money back, our take on what a
marketplace should be might fit your needs better.
Don't like that we built some drop down menus, and people happily
spend $15 for them? Cool with me. Go build your own, we've even got
how-tos in our docs that explain ways to do it. Everything we do is
open source, hell we even went with the MIT license so you could
rebrand concrete5 as your own agencies secret sauce and get rich while
completely hiding us from your client. Try that with
wordpress/joomla/drupal. Coming at us with this attitude that somehow
we're screwing you over because we don't think you NEED drop downs, we
think you WANT them isn't going to get you very far.
Lets stop discussing this. If you want to go make add-ons and release
them, I'm all for that. Please do it. Make them free or don't. I
really don't care as long as you provide good support and they don't
break peoples installs, we'll approve them for the marketplace.
There's no conspiracy here. There's no evil bald guy petting a cat
driving a maserati to work on the back of $15 Blip.tv video players.
Just a lot of hard working developers who are trying to share their
work and get compensated for it. If you don't want to pay for
something, don't buy it.
best wishes
Franz Maruna
CEO - concrete5.org
http://about.me/frz
don't want to spend $15 on an image gallery I paid my guys to make?
Fine with me, use a free one.
Calling someone's integrity in question because you don't see the
value of their products is inappropiate. Clearly someone else does
find value there.
Saying concrete5 isn't open source or was conceived as crippleware is
inaccurate, and it makes me sad. I challenge you to go find ANY cms
that gives you as robust a permission system, custom attribute system,
and other core framework features out of the box (for free in every
sense) as concrete5. Search our marketplace for "permissions" and
you're going to find nothing that changes the way the core permissions
work. Search Drupal's module directory for "permissions" and you're
going to find 300 unique takes on extending/rethinking them. Install
any of those, and who knows what the rest of your site will do. Now as
a developer, that could be the kind of wild west you're looking for.
If your time is infinite and your interest is more conceptual than
practical, that "free above all else" approach is probably a perfect
fit. However if you're just building a website and want something that
works tonight, or you get your money back, our take on what a
marketplace should be might fit your needs better.
Don't like that we built some drop down menus, and people happily
spend $15 for them? Cool with me. Go build your own, we've even got
how-tos in our docs that explain ways to do it. Everything we do is
open source, hell we even went with the MIT license so you could
rebrand concrete5 as your own agencies secret sauce and get rich while
completely hiding us from your client. Try that with
wordpress/joomla/drupal. Coming at us with this attitude that somehow
we're screwing you over because we don't think you NEED drop downs, we
think you WANT them isn't going to get you very far.
Lets stop discussing this. If you want to go make add-ons and release
them, I'm all for that. Please do it. Make them free or don't. I
really don't care as long as you provide good support and they don't
break peoples installs, we'll approve them for the marketplace.
There's no conspiracy here. There's no evil bald guy petting a cat
driving a maserati to work on the back of $15 Blip.tv video players.
Just a lot of hard working developers who are trying to share their
work and get compensated for it. If you don't want to pay for
something, don't buy it.
best wishes
Franz Maruna
CEO - concrete5.org
http://about.me/frz
Don't stress Franz, the community is very appreciative of the the work you and your team have put into C5 and for your continued support and enthusiasm. If I ever visit Portland, I'd want to shout the C5 team a case of beer. (We call them 'slabs' here in Australia).
Concrete5 has made me a very happy developer. I'm now able to give clients websites that they are enthusiastic to edit themselves, but from a development point of view, I'm very pleased how easy C5 is to extend with new blocks, override with block templates and basically override any part of the system in a consistent and predictable way. I'm more profitable as a business.
I now look at other CMSes and wonder how people actually get stuff done with them.
Concrete5 is also a great system for a novice to use, but it frustrates me when I read about people who expect all their problems to be solved for them, when they aren't programmers (or even CSS skilled). Somewhere along the line people have forgotten that building a website is a technical exercise - yes C5 makes it much easier to manage, but no system is going to do everything for you. Web development needs to be learnt over time, not just picked up in a few hours of fiddling about.
In terms of the marketplace, I've had nothing but success. I've bought a fair bit of stuff now (I think I'm up to 5 ecommerce licenses) plus a bunch of other stuff, and all it has done has saved me LOADS of time for trivial amounts of money. I've very glad that Concrete5 isn't this crazy mess of plugins like Joomla.
To a serious developer/business person, paying, $15, $30, even $100 for a component that saves you potentially hours or days or development time is a good decision to make. I put a dollar value on my time as well. Yes some of the plugins are better built than others, but that goes in ANY industry. Remember that the plugins have a rating system.
With all the good things that the open source world brings, there is unfortunately now a sort of expectation that everything in the programming world be free, with a 'how dare you charge $15 for something that took you days of work' view. People forget that you've given them something for free.
I get the impression that josiebaby isn't exactly a professional here (no offence intended in that). I wish her luck with her future learning, but recommend to her to maintain a higher level of politeness on a PUBLIC forum. It goes a long way to be polite, respectful and helpful on forums, because you end up with a positive reputation and you end up with the support returned to you. How people can be rude and then expect people to help them (and create videos for them!) is beyond me.
Concrete5 has made me a very happy developer. I'm now able to give clients websites that they are enthusiastic to edit themselves, but from a development point of view, I'm very pleased how easy C5 is to extend with new blocks, override with block templates and basically override any part of the system in a consistent and predictable way. I'm more profitable as a business.
I now look at other CMSes and wonder how people actually get stuff done with them.
Concrete5 is also a great system for a novice to use, but it frustrates me when I read about people who expect all their problems to be solved for them, when they aren't programmers (or even CSS skilled). Somewhere along the line people have forgotten that building a website is a technical exercise - yes C5 makes it much easier to manage, but no system is going to do everything for you. Web development needs to be learnt over time, not just picked up in a few hours of fiddling about.
In terms of the marketplace, I've had nothing but success. I've bought a fair bit of stuff now (I think I'm up to 5 ecommerce licenses) plus a bunch of other stuff, and all it has done has saved me LOADS of time for trivial amounts of money. I've very glad that Concrete5 isn't this crazy mess of plugins like Joomla.
To a serious developer/business person, paying, $15, $30, even $100 for a component that saves you potentially hours or days or development time is a good decision to make. I put a dollar value on my time as well. Yes some of the plugins are better built than others, but that goes in ANY industry. Remember that the plugins have a rating system.
With all the good things that the open source world brings, there is unfortunately now a sort of expectation that everything in the programming world be free, with a 'how dare you charge $15 for something that took you days of work' view. People forget that you've given them something for free.
I get the impression that josiebaby isn't exactly a professional here (no offence intended in that). I wish her luck with her future learning, but recommend to her to maintain a higher level of politeness on a PUBLIC forum. It goes a long way to be polite, respectful and helpful on forums, because you end up with a positive reputation and you end up with the support returned to you. How people can be rude and then expect people to help them (and create videos for them!) is beyond me.
Thanks. I don't mean to rant or bite at this hook every time someone
drops it in the water. I just feel like its important we're clear for
the folks who might come along 4 months from now and stumble on this
thread. It doesn't look good if no one defends the "integrity" of our
marketplace developers.
So thanks mesuva, it's always nice to get a pat on the back.
To be clear, I'm eager to hear meaningful feedback we can do something
about too. I don't even need it to be phrased in a "constructive" way.
Everyone should be feel free to call us out for things like not
reorganizing the themes landing page for ages or scrapbooks being
weird as hell - no one's perfect.
I'm not stressed, but I do agree that a beer sounds like a good idea...
best wishes
Franz Maruna
CEO - concrete5.org
http://about.me/frz
drops it in the water. I just feel like its important we're clear for
the folks who might come along 4 months from now and stumble on this
thread. It doesn't look good if no one defends the "integrity" of our
marketplace developers.
So thanks mesuva, it's always nice to get a pat on the back.
To be clear, I'm eager to hear meaningful feedback we can do something
about too. I don't even need it to be phrased in a "constructive" way.
Everyone should be feel free to call us out for things like not
reorganizing the themes landing page for ages or scrapbooks being
weird as hell - no one's perfect.
I'm not stressed, but I do agree that a beer sounds like a good idea...
best wishes
Franz Maruna
CEO - concrete5.org
http://about.me/frz
Just adding my experience to the mix .
i find some of the add ons helpful and every now and then i do not mind spending money on some of them to see if they have the functionality i need .
although your point about quality resonates with me. some of these addons are just bare minimal. and i wonder if that 15.00 is well spent. Especially when i could have implemented the same thing with just a lil work, and get better results.
To me, its worth the add ons expense if it allows me to link content quickly and easily, and gives the ability to customize the content .
some add ons have met this requirement while others have fell short.
unfortunately c5 is like computer software you will have to play with various things to find out what works for you .
personally i have found the Code Block addition and Easy Tabs all very useful .
and if i was to do a site for a client i would include their cost into the fee i would charge.
and the rest of the money that have spent on add on that have not done that much for me. I consider as helping c5 and hopefully helps foster improved quality in blocks.
i find some of the add ons helpful and every now and then i do not mind spending money on some of them to see if they have the functionality i need .
although your point about quality resonates with me. some of these addons are just bare minimal. and i wonder if that 15.00 is well spent. Especially when i could have implemented the same thing with just a lil work, and get better results.
To me, its worth the add ons expense if it allows me to link content quickly and easily, and gives the ability to customize the content .
some add ons have met this requirement while others have fell short.
unfortunately c5 is like computer software you will have to play with various things to find out what works for you .
personally i have found the Code Block addition and Easy Tabs all very useful .
and if i was to do a site for a client i would include their cost into the fee i would charge.
and the rest of the money that have spent on add on that have not done that much for me. I consider as helping c5 and hopefully helps foster improved quality in blocks.
Hi,
I wish to post my experience about...
I recently buy some bundle, themes, single add-ons (think I spend 200$ or more) ,
I must say that I am happy with the stuff I bayed and support,
my site (in development) looks much better and more useful than before , the developers are kind and the support WORKS, as I am not an English speaker I was a bit worried but thanks to the good support I have implemented all my stuff, this should worth something no?
I come from e107 cms (a great cms) , once I try concrete5 I come to a new concept to design and develop websites thanks to his approach to developing add-ons.
I am not a commercial developer but I work in IT as tech consultant for Virtualization technologies, let me say that concrete5 is a great piece of software IMO.
One question (sorry if off-topic) :
Am I entitle to modify an add-on I buy ? or modify a free add-on?
if yes for the free ones what I must do to release them ? must be released for free?
I wish to post my experience about...
I recently buy some bundle, themes, single add-ons (think I spend 200$ or more) ,
I must say that I am happy with the stuff I bayed and support,
my site (in development) looks much better and more useful than before , the developers are kind and the support WORKS, as I am not an English speaker I was a bit worried but thanks to the good support I have implemented all my stuff, this should worth something no?
I come from e107 cms (a great cms) , once I try concrete5 I come to a new concept to design and develop websites thanks to his approach to developing add-ons.
I am not a commercial developer but I work in IT as tech consultant for Virtualization technologies, let me say that concrete5 is a great piece of software IMO.
One question (sorry if off-topic) :
Am I entitle to modify an add-on I buy ? or modify a free add-on?
if yes for the free ones what I must do to release them ? must be released for free?
Thanks for the feedback.
Yes you are allowed to modify them as much as you want.
No you do not have to release your modifications to anyone, including us.
So in terms of the word "free", you still have a great amount of
"freedom" even with the commercial add-ons & themes. This, to me, is
the real promise behind open source. Not that everyone gets anything
they might want without paying a dime, but rather that when you do own
something (Regardless of what/if cost you) you actually own it and
you're allowed to open the hood and poke around at the engine.
The only caviat here is you can't reuse the add-on on more than one
active site. So if you make a bunch of extensions to ecommerce, that's
great, and you're welcome to use them over and over, but you'll have
to buy a new license of ecommerce for each active site you're using it
on.
best wishes
Franz Maruna
CEO - concrete5.org
http://about.me/frz
Yes you are allowed to modify them as much as you want.
No you do not have to release your modifications to anyone, including us.
So in terms of the word "free", you still have a great amount of
"freedom" even with the commercial add-ons & themes. This, to me, is
the real promise behind open source. Not that everyone gets anything
they might want without paying a dime, but rather that when you do own
something (Regardless of what/if cost you) you actually own it and
you're allowed to open the hood and poke around at the engine.
The only caviat here is you can't reuse the add-on on more than one
active site. So if you make a bunch of extensions to ecommerce, that's
great, and you're welcome to use them over and over, but you'll have
to buy a new license of ecommerce for each active site you're using it
on.
best wishes
Franz Maruna
CEO - concrete5.org
http://about.me/frz
Thank you for the reply,
That make perfectly sense to me.
so in that case I will start to modify some free add-on and hopefully I will come out with something good enough to be posted on marketplace (for free)
That make perfectly sense to me.
so in that case I will start to modify some free add-on and hopefully I will come out with something good enough to be posted on marketplace (for free)
Yes, just make sure your changes extend the add-on and don't include
it. You'll find there are some themes that are designed to work
specifically with add-ons, or custom templates that work with specific
blocks.
best wishes
Franz Maruna
CEO - concrete5.org
http://about.me/frz
it. You'll find there are some themes that are designed to work
specifically with add-ons, or custom templates that work with specific
blocks.
best wishes
Franz Maruna
CEO - concrete5.org
http://about.me/frz
ok,
now I have to spend some time first on my website than I wil try to study a bit more the concrete5 developing system.
thanks again for the advices.
now I have to spend some time first on my website than I wil try to study a bit more the concrete5 developing system.
thanks again for the advices.
if you can't follow that, then maybe the addon would be worth it- but thats just up to you. I don't think theres a video to tell you how to make addons, this is the closest you're going to get.http://www.concrete5.org/documentation/how-tos/developers/understan...
also look at some blocks in the marketplace, they can be valuable. If you need more help don't hesitate to ask a question in the forums, or you can pm me.