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Don't get me wrong here, I am all about the market place. But the greed is kind of sickening. 45$ for php randomize code? Is that a joke? Lol.
It's getting out hand here. IPhone apps that do and process 100x more cost only $10.
Not to mention that a add-on I had purchased for more than $50 was not even remotely complete. I had to practically re-code most of it.
I'm not against paying for others work. But this is not going to promote C5 use at all. It's hurting the C5 community. Not making it better.
Some of you dev types need to think through some things. All you are doing is creating more joomla users. It's sad.
It's getting out hand here. IPhone apps that do and process 100x more cost only $10.
Not to mention that a add-on I had purchased for more than $50 was not even remotely complete. I had to practically re-code most of it.
I'm not against paying for others work. But this is not going to promote C5 use at all. It's hurting the C5 community. Not making it better.
Some of you dev types need to think through some things. All you are doing is creating more joomla users. It's sad.
For me C5 is an absolute blessing!
I have the core CMS completely free and it has practically everything I need.
I have not purchased any add ons yet because I just don't need them.That is not to say that I wont need add ons but when I do, I will work them into my business model accordingly.
I don't know if the add ons are over priced or not, but if I feel I cant afford one, then I have the choice to either hire someone else to make the add on or do it myself. Again I am going to have to price it into my current business model either way.
Anyway I am not the ideal C5 customer, and thats my point really, how do C5 price me into there business model?
I don't want to go into a long winded debate about development costs or comparisons about iphone apps, the real point of my post is this.....The core is Free and you have a CHOICE to purchase add ons or hire someone else to do it for you.
I would just like to say one last thing... Thank you Concrete5 for giving me the opportunity to be on a level playing field.... its a bit suck up.. but its probably the best payment they are going to get from me for a while.
I have the core CMS completely free and it has practically everything I need.
I have not purchased any add ons yet because I just don't need them.That is not to say that I wont need add ons but when I do, I will work them into my business model accordingly.
I don't know if the add ons are over priced or not, but if I feel I cant afford one, then I have the choice to either hire someone else to make the add on or do it myself. Again I am going to have to price it into my current business model either way.
Anyway I am not the ideal C5 customer, and thats my point really, how do C5 price me into there business model?
I don't want to go into a long winded debate about development costs or comparisons about iphone apps, the real point of my post is this.....The core is Free and you have a CHOICE to purchase add ons or hire someone else to do it for you.
I would just like to say one last thing... Thank you Concrete5 for giving me the opportunity to be on a level playing field.... its a bit suck up.. but its probably the best payment they are going to get from me for a while.
I think you are misinterpreting what I am saying.
for me, C5 is a fantastic solution. The work flow is so much more well thought out than Mambo/Joomla. Props there.
I think as a business model, however, you are not thinking through the marketing strategy well. You are not considering what you are up against. Mod-x, Silverstripe, ext. ALL with nice features for free with a healthy community wanting to spread the word.
It's to bad hiked up greedy mod costs are going to stunt the growth of C5 imo.
I am not griping just because I am cheep.
I am disappointed that we don't understand supply and demand. Business model.
Better to move more for less than less for more at this point for the sake of promoting an otherwise fantastic platform.
Frankly, I think you SHOULD charge a fee for C5. It's fantastic. I would have ZERO problem dropping $50 for core and a limit of $10 per use of specific mods or $20 for unlimited use.
I think you would see a massive boost in excitement about what C5 brings to the table.
You guys have done great. but I think the dream is bigger than the reality when it comes to getting more people using a great platform.
I think there should be accountability of your Dev's on Cost. Remember, weather it's theirs or not, it's YOUR name/CMS people judge that by.
Something to think about.
BTW, just because I am of the professional perspective that you have some greed running rampant that will ultimately stunt the growth of your platform, does not mean I am not extremely grateful for what C5 has done, and what it is.
I just want my peers to not laugh when told the collective cost for a church website they are working on that happens to need a Gallery, Calender, Forums, Blog and eCom....ect. They are going to laugh. And that's saddening.
for me, C5 is a fantastic solution. The work flow is so much more well thought out than Mambo/Joomla. Props there.
I think as a business model, however, you are not thinking through the marketing strategy well. You are not considering what you are up against. Mod-x, Silverstripe, ext. ALL with nice features for free with a healthy community wanting to spread the word.
It's to bad hiked up greedy mod costs are going to stunt the growth of C5 imo.
I am not griping just because I am cheep.
I am disappointed that we don't understand supply and demand. Business model.
Better to move more for less than less for more at this point for the sake of promoting an otherwise fantastic platform.
Frankly, I think you SHOULD charge a fee for C5. It's fantastic. I would have ZERO problem dropping $50 for core and a limit of $10 per use of specific mods or $20 for unlimited use.
I think you would see a massive boost in excitement about what C5 brings to the table.
You guys have done great. but I think the dream is bigger than the reality when it comes to getting more people using a great platform.
I think there should be accountability of your Dev's on Cost. Remember, weather it's theirs or not, it's YOUR name/CMS people judge that by.
Something to think about.
BTW, just because I am of the professional perspective that you have some greed running rampant that will ultimately stunt the growth of your platform, does not mean I am not extremely grateful for what C5 has done, and what it is.
I just want my peers to not laugh when told the collective cost for a church website they are working on that happens to need a Gallery, Calender, Forums, Blog and eCom....ect. They are going to laugh. And that's saddening.
it seems a bit messed up to accuse c5 of being greedy when the core is being released open source & free, the team is offering tons of free help in the forums, and the marketplace + hosting etc isn't even paying the bills yet.
Hey, here's an idea... read more into something than what was said..oh wait, you just did that.
I am not, have not, at any time accused C5 team of being greedy. Unless of course they themselves are the ones selling a randomize code for insane cost.
It really bothers me when people try to put words in your mouth.
I had two main points here.
1.) do a better job at releasing complete packages instead of half baked. (Frz agreed with this)
2.) I am of the strong opinion that there are certain addons WORTH $50+, and there are others that just are not. It's a joke for anyone to pay $50 for randomize code. a joke. The C5 team should know this, and monitor that for the sake of their product, and the integrity of the community. (Frz strongly disagrees with this, thus, there will be no accountability for Dev's and their pricing.)
please respect the fact that I am faithful to this product, and that as such, I am COMPLETELY entitled to my opinion. And as well, entitled to share that in this medium with the hope of ADVANCING THIS CMS. why? because I DO IN FACT LOVE IT!!!!
Anyway. Thanks Frz for a great update. Very helpful improvements!
I am not, have not, at any time accused C5 team of being greedy. Unless of course they themselves are the ones selling a randomize code for insane cost.
It really bothers me when people try to put words in your mouth.
I had two main points here.
1.) do a better job at releasing complete packages instead of half baked. (Frz agreed with this)
2.) I am of the strong opinion that there are certain addons WORTH $50+, and there are others that just are not. It's a joke for anyone to pay $50 for randomize code. a joke. The C5 team should know this, and monitor that for the sake of their product, and the integrity of the community. (Frz strongly disagrees with this, thus, there will be no accountability for Dev's and their pricing.)
please respect the fact that I am faithful to this product, and that as such, I am COMPLETELY entitled to my opinion. And as well, entitled to share that in this medium with the hope of ADVANCING THIS CMS. why? because I DO IN FACT LOVE IT!!!!
Anyway. Thanks Frz for a great update. Very helpful improvements!
yeah actually, the randomizer IS our code. Frankly, there's a fair amount going on under the hood of that bad boy, and if you owned a copy you might have more respect for it. Oh, and its $35.. not $50. so thanks for the detailed research in your b!tch post about someone being defensive about your tone.
Value is in the eye of the beholder.
Clearly, you value your time a lot less than the folks who happily buy the randomizer. As stated by me and others, the strategy of keeping the core free for the frugal, and letting folks who would rather just pay a measly $35 for something that works now seems pretty d4mn fair. I've never had a single complaint on the randomizer, and since I can see you've never bought it, I'd appreciate it if you didn't walk around what amounts to my store bad mouthing it.
If you had asked for a refund on the blog, I'm sure you would (and still can) have it. I've done everything I can to be polite and try to use this thread as way of explaining our business strategy, but I've had enough. This conversation is quickly heading nowhere and I'm closing the thread.
Glad you love concrete5, please keep using it and helping others in the forums. Can't say that's gonna keep us in business, but it certainly does help the project as a whole, so I appreciate the time you give there.
best wishes.
Value is in the eye of the beholder.
Clearly, you value your time a lot less than the folks who happily buy the randomizer. As stated by me and others, the strategy of keeping the core free for the frugal, and letting folks who would rather just pay a measly $35 for something that works now seems pretty d4mn fair. I've never had a single complaint on the randomizer, and since I can see you've never bought it, I'd appreciate it if you didn't walk around what amounts to my store bad mouthing it.
If you had asked for a refund on the blog, I'm sure you would (and still can) have it. I've done everything I can to be polite and try to use this thread as way of explaining our business strategy, but I've had enough. This conversation is quickly heading nowhere and I'm closing the thread.
Glad you love concrete5, please keep using it and helping others in the forums. Can't say that's gonna keep us in business, but it certainly does help the project as a whole, so I appreciate the time you give there.
best wishes.
"If you feel like you could build a block with the features the Message of the Day block has and do so in less than $45 worth of time - I applaud your combination of programming talent and low budget living."
I want to say I think this is a ridiculous statement.
So every dev should have 100% profit after the first sale? lol What kind of thinking is that?
Has the C5 crew connected with a business strategist? Someone that is well versed in economics and marketing?
You may want to consider getting someone on board that can help you in these areas.
I want to say I think this is a ridiculous statement.
So every dev should have 100% profit after the first sale? lol What kind of thinking is that?
Has the C5 crew connected with a business strategist? Someone that is well versed in economics and marketing?
You may want to consider getting someone on board that can help you in these areas.
Huh?
My point was it would take YOU more than $45 worth of time to build the Message of the Day block. I know this to be true because between the time that went into the randomizer (which its based off of) and the extension to make it time based, I've easily spent more than $2,000 to get it done.. So I have to sell far more than one to break even. The point is, if it's going to take you as a developer only a few hours to build your client a solution that solves the same problem - $45 might look like a pretty good way to get the job done faster.
If your church site needs a gallery, calendar, forums, blog and ecom - and they cant pony up the few hundred bucks that will add up to in our marketplace, check out google calendar (free), phpBB (free), wordpress (Free), paypal cart (free).. etc. If you're in a situation where it makes more sense spending time than cash, you're still golden with concrete5.
I also have to point out, if I were to turn around and say "guess what, concrete5 is still free but concrete6 now costs XX".. even if xx were $20 and not the $50 you suggest, there would be outrage - not support. I would agree with that outrage. It basically means the "free" version is destined to be crap. This is what Magento just did with their enterprise version costing 9k/year..
I'll be honest here, I'm getting a little frustrated with the tone of this conversation. I do understand supply and demand. You are missing a key aspect to software - support. I would actually rather sell a few copies at a mid price than endless copies at a tiny price. When you are making promises to help people fix goofy installs, you really would rather have 100 customers at $55 than 1,000 at $5.
I am far from greedy. If you've had a bad experience with your add-on purchase, I'd be happy to refund your purchase, but the words you're choosing here aren't fair or accurate. When I look around I only see developers beating themselves up trying to make customers happy.
We do have an advisory board, although frankly anyone who knows what they're doing in this space agrees that open source and "Free" is new territory at best.. If it helps your confidence, we're very much into the "free-mium" model that Chris Anderson outlines.. The small portion of corporate clients who find $55 for a blog to be laughably cheap pay for the free core that everyone else enjoys.
Perhaps that's a key point - while I'm jazzed that anyone uses concrete5, when I think of our target client, its a agency with 12 people doing work for small and mid-sized businesses. I just had a meeting with a small industry magazine that needs their site rebuilt, and as we went through the add-ons they'd need, they were laughing too. At how cheap it was.
If you want to continue this conversation, I need you to stop implying that I'm a moron. I need you to give me something to respond to that is a little more thought out than "gee charge $50 for the core." I don't know if that's what modX is doing or planning on doing to make money or not, but I know that's a bad bad idea.
What we're doing works just fine. People are buying add-ons and if concrete5 isn't the right solution for your church website, bummer for you.
Thanks for the kudos on the app design tho. That was nice. ;)
<chuckles>
-frz
My point was it would take YOU more than $45 worth of time to build the Message of the Day block. I know this to be true because between the time that went into the randomizer (which its based off of) and the extension to make it time based, I've easily spent more than $2,000 to get it done.. So I have to sell far more than one to break even. The point is, if it's going to take you as a developer only a few hours to build your client a solution that solves the same problem - $45 might look like a pretty good way to get the job done faster.
If your church site needs a gallery, calendar, forums, blog and ecom - and they cant pony up the few hundred bucks that will add up to in our marketplace, check out google calendar (free), phpBB (free), wordpress (Free), paypal cart (free).. etc. If you're in a situation where it makes more sense spending time than cash, you're still golden with concrete5.
I also have to point out, if I were to turn around and say "guess what, concrete5 is still free but concrete6 now costs XX".. even if xx were $20 and not the $50 you suggest, there would be outrage - not support. I would agree with that outrage. It basically means the "free" version is destined to be crap. This is what Magento just did with their enterprise version costing 9k/year..
I'll be honest here, I'm getting a little frustrated with the tone of this conversation. I do understand supply and demand. You are missing a key aspect to software - support. I would actually rather sell a few copies at a mid price than endless copies at a tiny price. When you are making promises to help people fix goofy installs, you really would rather have 100 customers at $55 than 1,000 at $5.
I am far from greedy. If you've had a bad experience with your add-on purchase, I'd be happy to refund your purchase, but the words you're choosing here aren't fair or accurate. When I look around I only see developers beating themselves up trying to make customers happy.
We do have an advisory board, although frankly anyone who knows what they're doing in this space agrees that open source and "Free" is new territory at best.. If it helps your confidence, we're very much into the "free-mium" model that Chris Anderson outlines.. The small portion of corporate clients who find $55 for a blog to be laughably cheap pay for the free core that everyone else enjoys.
Perhaps that's a key point - while I'm jazzed that anyone uses concrete5, when I think of our target client, its a agency with 12 people doing work for small and mid-sized businesses. I just had a meeting with a small industry magazine that needs their site rebuilt, and as we went through the add-ons they'd need, they were laughing too. At how cheap it was.
If you want to continue this conversation, I need you to stop implying that I'm a moron. I need you to give me something to respond to that is a little more thought out than "gee charge $50 for the core." I don't know if that's what modX is doing or planning on doing to make money or not, but I know that's a bad bad idea.
What we're doing works just fine. People are buying add-ons and if concrete5 isn't the right solution for your church website, bummer for you.
Thanks for the kudos on the app design tho. That was nice. ;)
<chuckles>
-frz
Yes, I wouldn't be happy if I would have to pay for the core and I would probably even start my own spin-off...
Beside that I'm usually fine with all the addons. Just had an annoying experience with the gallery package but that's it.
Keep Concrete5 the way it is! It's just great
Beside that I'm usually fine with all the addons. Just had an annoying experience with the gallery package but that's it.
Keep Concrete5 the way it is! It's just great
coming from Remo, who has been pretty "open source == free forever" I'll take that as a compliment..
Ya know, I've been staring at modX's pretty new green site for a while now and I can't figure out their revenue model...
Donations?
for real?
can someone point me in the right direction?
Ya know, I've been staring at modX's pretty new green site for a while now and I can't figure out their revenue model...
Donations?
for real?
can someone point me in the right direction?
..it was meant to be a compliment.
I like free stuff - who doesn't. And I often publish stuff for free to give something back. But paying for stuff is okay as well, getting money is nice as well.
And even if Concrete5 and it's business model might not be perfect, I'm not having a better idea and therefore consider it being great..
I'm pretty skeptical about donations. I never had a button "buy me a coffee" and my website. Not only because I don't drink coffee but basically because I doubt I'd get a lot of money this way... Someone please tell me if I'm wrong..
I like free stuff - who doesn't. And I often publish stuff for free to give something back. But paying for stuff is okay as well, getting money is nice as well.
And even if Concrete5 and it's business model might not be perfect, I'm not having a better idea and therefore consider it being great..
I'm pretty skeptical about donations. I never had a button "buy me a coffee" and my website. Not only because I don't drink coffee but basically because I doubt I'd get a lot of money this way... Someone please tell me if I'm wrong..
I'm actually surprised you haven't beat the drum of "it's a one time fee man, let it go.". ;-P
First, with all do respect, you are assuming an insinuation of ignorance because someone is challenging your strategy. be careful there please.
I don't want to burn a bridge here. I just have a different vantage point.
more to discuss than a core charge?
- stricter approval process demanding a push to standards driven content including stronger CSS and templating integration. It really sucks to pay $50 and have to re-code, add div's, re-do Veiw's...ect. I'm just sayin'. Not trying to be mean here. But that's frustrating.
- if it's not fully functional, don't release it. This hurts your product. best support on the planet or otherwise, $50 on a mod that is not complete sucks a$$! Having to correct php code and query's is not why I paid that money.(I will connect with you online to give specifics, I don't want to through anyone under the buss)
- I definitely do recommend two pricing options for mods. a per use, lower cost. And then a developer liscense as well. in this way, you would be opening your doors for one off site builders (not just firms), as well as allow more audience to try out C5 as a complete resource. (what incentive do I have as a developer to spend $50 on a blog when wordpress is free and most likely more robust?) Try it cheaply and see!
Again, try to look past my abrasive personality and hear a person that actually wants to see C5 gain momentum!
I am indeed thankful for the hard work Mod authors put in, even the mod's I have had to fix. and btw, I did send dozens of emails with corrected code, suggestions, and findings...for FREE. so I am not just bitching...I did contribute. you just didn't see that.
And I would put these things in a partner/dev forum as apposed to here (public), but sadly, my submittal over a month ago for developer has not been responded to.
I'm trying to help here. irritated tone or otherwise...it's cause I CARE.
First, with all do respect, you are assuming an insinuation of ignorance because someone is challenging your strategy. be careful there please.
I don't want to burn a bridge here. I just have a different vantage point.
more to discuss than a core charge?
- stricter approval process demanding a push to standards driven content including stronger CSS and templating integration. It really sucks to pay $50 and have to re-code, add div's, re-do Veiw's...ect. I'm just sayin'. Not trying to be mean here. But that's frustrating.
- if it's not fully functional, don't release it. This hurts your product. best support on the planet or otherwise, $50 on a mod that is not complete sucks a$$! Having to correct php code and query's is not why I paid that money.(I will connect with you online to give specifics, I don't want to through anyone under the buss)
- I definitely do recommend two pricing options for mods. a per use, lower cost. And then a developer liscense as well. in this way, you would be opening your doors for one off site builders (not just firms), as well as allow more audience to try out C5 as a complete resource. (what incentive do I have as a developer to spend $50 on a blog when wordpress is free and most likely more robust?) Try it cheaply and see!
Again, try to look past my abrasive personality and hear a person that actually wants to see C5 gain momentum!
I am indeed thankful for the hard work Mod authors put in, even the mod's I have had to fix. and btw, I did send dozens of emails with corrected code, suggestions, and findings...for FREE. so I am not just bitching...I did contribute. you just didn't see that.
And I would put these things in a partner/dev forum as apposed to here (public), but sadly, my submittal over a month ago for developer has not been responded to.
I'm trying to help here. irritated tone or otherwise...it's cause I CARE.
Okay, I'm just about out of steam on this issue and as I'm not really learning anything new I think next time I'm just gonna point to the about page on "what is free" and bow out... buuut..
1) "assuming an insinuation of ignorance"
I don't know what you're referring to there. I think I've been pretty diplomatic in this thread. You've told me what I was saying was "Ridiculous", and that we were "Greedy", you've told me I need to see a business strategist and implied I don't understand business myself. I don't find that to be a fun way to have a thoughtful conversation. I never meant to be disparaging to you in return and I don't believe I was.
2) Yes, we are redesigning major elements of concrete5.org over the winter. There will be a lot more functionality for website builders and owners to connect and collaborate. You will be able to manage your hosting accounts and licenses around add-ons. I do believe there will be a volume discount on buying add-ons. I don't believe there will be an "unlimited license." As a businessman, that doesn't make sense to me. If you're you're using something a lot, surely you'll have more support needs than someone who uses it a little. Why do you only pay a fixed amount? I totally get that a frequent customer should get a discount, but the whole developer license thing strikes me as thought up by developers.
3) Yes, there will be more of a threshhold system in the marketplace where people can submit their stuff to be included automatically ad a "RED SUPPORT LEVEL" and as it's vetted by the community it can turn into a "GREEN" add-on.
I'm glad that you want to see concrete5 succeed, I'm happy that you helped the blog guys get their app to be more stable than it was when it first was available. I think they were pretty clear on the state of their app when it went on sale. The thing I don't think you're factoring in is the clammoring of developers & owners who are demanding a solution NOW to the problem. While you're clearly not happy, there are dozens of other people that are pleased with their blog and would rather be part of a fluid QA process than wait another X months to have something perfect...
Regardless... This is the world we're in, the marketplace is where we're focused, we're not going to be changing that strategy any time soon - as it seems to be working.
Back to work for me.
Gluck.
1) "assuming an insinuation of ignorance"
I don't know what you're referring to there. I think I've been pretty diplomatic in this thread. You've told me what I was saying was "Ridiculous", and that we were "Greedy", you've told me I need to see a business strategist and implied I don't understand business myself. I don't find that to be a fun way to have a thoughtful conversation. I never meant to be disparaging to you in return and I don't believe I was.
2) Yes, we are redesigning major elements of concrete5.org over the winter. There will be a lot more functionality for website builders and owners to connect and collaborate. You will be able to manage your hosting accounts and licenses around add-ons. I do believe there will be a volume discount on buying add-ons. I don't believe there will be an "unlimited license." As a businessman, that doesn't make sense to me. If you're you're using something a lot, surely you'll have more support needs than someone who uses it a little. Why do you only pay a fixed amount? I totally get that a frequent customer should get a discount, but the whole developer license thing strikes me as thought up by developers.
3) Yes, there will be more of a threshhold system in the marketplace where people can submit their stuff to be included automatically ad a "RED SUPPORT LEVEL" and as it's vetted by the community it can turn into a "GREEN" add-on.
I'm glad that you want to see concrete5 succeed, I'm happy that you helped the blog guys get their app to be more stable than it was when it first was available. I think they were pretty clear on the state of their app when it went on sale. The thing I don't think you're factoring in is the clammoring of developers & owners who are demanding a solution NOW to the problem. While you're clearly not happy, there are dozens of other people that are pleased with their blog and would rather be part of a fluid QA process than wait another X months to have something perfect...
Regardless... This is the world we're in, the marketplace is where we're focused, we're not going to be changing that strategy any time soon - as it seems to be working.
Back to work for me.
Gluck.
I believe in free market. It's up to developer to decide which price the product should be sold at. If the product is too expensive, people will not buy it and the developer will have to lower the price. Or possibly there will be an alternative product at lower price from another vendor. Concrete5 is not windows, it's open source, so you always have a choice:
1) you can write addon by yourself;
2) you can hire somebody to write the addon for you;
3) you can request similar addon from somebody (why not?);
4) you can find some people who need such addon and share the amount of money to hire somebody to develop the addon.
1) you can write addon by yourself;
2) you can hire somebody to write the addon for you;
3) you can request similar addon from somebody (why not?);
4) you can find some people who need such addon and share the amount of money to hire somebody to develop the addon.
The solution to greed is simple: produce it yourself and sell it at a cheaper price. Its the American way, and we've been doing it for decades.
@frz did you hurt your fingers typing all of that? Damn...
bottom line; kick ass product with great people (developers and users) behind it.
bottom line; kick ass product with great people (developers and users) behind it.
you're so succinct.
thx. ;)
thx. ;)
supply and demand. it's a novel concept. lol bah...when the Dev supply goes up $$ will go down. Unless the C5 marketplace isn't a free market environment. ha ha.
So yeah, frz, if I conjure up a more simple, original calendar and offer it up for $15...is that acceptable?
So yeah, frz, if I conjure up a more simple, original calendar and offer it up for $15...is that acceptable?
if your calendar works, and by works I mean makes sense to a site owner, seems to be liked, doesn't clash with other applications, and you're willing to put in the time to support it - I will happily add it to the marketplace.
Frankly, the more that OTHER developers take care of these interfaces, the happier we are. The only reason your seeing us building them today is we're in a position to support them, we know how to do it, and we could use the cash. In the big picture we expect to do fine off of the operations of the marketplace, which I believe puts us in a position to really focus on the core in a way that everyone would want.
Regardless, everyone's gotta eat and that's what we're gonna try. Doesn't shock me that not a lot of other folk go this way, that's the path we're frequently on. I know there will be some bumps on the road, and I'm glad you're willing to stick with us and see where we all end up.
-frz
Frankly, the more that OTHER developers take care of these interfaces, the happier we are. The only reason your seeing us building them today is we're in a position to support them, we know how to do it, and we could use the cash. In the big picture we expect to do fine off of the operations of the marketplace, which I believe puts us in a position to really focus on the core in a way that everyone would want.
Regardless, everyone's gotta eat and that's what we're gonna try. Doesn't shock me that not a lot of other folk go this way, that's the path we're frequently on. I know there will be some bumps on the road, and I'm glad you're willing to stick with us and see where we all end up.
-frz
I would build the simpleCal if I could figure out how to get datepicker to work in add.php. lol AAAAKKKKK!
check out the blog app you purchased, few examples there.
Sorry the app was the brunt of your criticism, but hey at least we stepped up to give it a shot?
Sorry the app was the brunt of your criticism, but hey at least we stepped up to give it a shot?
Where at. Prob solved in patch I c . Woot!
I'd just like to put in my .02 to Franz and friends... It is a noble thing you are doing with Concrete 5. I love it and appreciate it. I've bought several blocks--some I don't use as much, but my investment is still only around $100 and I have a beautiful full functioning website.
Plus, every time I turn around there is an imporovment/update/new block (usually free!)
If I wore a hat I'd take it off to you.
Sus
Plus, every time I turn around there is an imporovment/update/new block (usually free!)
If I wore a hat I'd take it off to you.
Sus
that's nice to hear..
look at it this way, before concrete5, if you were building your site with bits and pieces you found around the web, it'd be pretty easy to spend a few hundred bucks on templates, UI elements, some shareware,etc... but /you'd/ still have to get them to all work together. Now we're eliminating that risk of getting them to work together...
sometimes i think of concrete5 as more of a operating system for website's content than a strict CMS.. our job is to make sure these different things work together.
of course, as others have said, if you've got the expertise to build everything on your own in the first place, concrete5 is still a really nice (and completely free) starting point.
look at it this way, before concrete5, if you were building your site with bits and pieces you found around the web, it'd be pretty easy to spend a few hundred bucks on templates, UI elements, some shareware,etc... but /you'd/ still have to get them to all work together. Now we're eliminating that risk of getting them to work together...
sometimes i think of concrete5 as more of a operating system for website's content than a strict CMS.. our job is to make sure these different things work together.
of course, as others have said, if you've got the expertise to build everything on your own in the first place, concrete5 is still a really nice (and completely free) starting point.
I am with susannahmp on this. This is the first open cms system that I have felt comfortable offering to clients at all levels of business as an alternative to high priced solutions. Most really like the idea of only having no reoccurring cost and really like the flexibility it opens to them for site design and maintenance.
Second, I'm curious as to your challenges with purchased add-ons. I've spent many dollars on having developers help customers with install and customization challenges for our commercial add-ons. I can tell you (and the others reading) that the my developers, and 3rd party developers, are bending over backwards to make sure that people who buy add-ons are happy. While I'm sure any of the add-ons could have more features, I assure everyone they are all very much complete. If you're not happy, by all means ask for a refund.
Pricing in the marketplace is a discussion that I agree does have more gray area. How much is something worth?
Well the developer in all of us thinks that should be related to the amount of effort that went into it.
The business person in any of us knows that it is actually how important it is to the eventual owner that determines how much anything is worth.
Everything in the marketplace sells. To many people, it's a steal. Some things in there you might be able to do faster yourself. From what I've learned, a smart developer can pull off a fix to the problem the Domain Mapper add-on does with some quick scripting in the blink of an eye. Personally, .htaccess and mod_rewrite scare me. I'm happy to pay $125 for an add-on and support plan that promise I'll be able to make that work on my own. Compared to paying a developer to do it whenever I need it, that's a steal.
If you feel like you could build a block with the features the Message of the Day block has and do so in less than $45 worth of time - I applaud your combination of programming talent and low budget living. I can tell you as the guy who signs the checks for concrete5 - it took me a couple of thousand to get it specifically built to the standard you see today. I can also tell you it took me hundreds of thousands to get concrete5 core (the already free part) to the point it is today. Oh, and I'm a long way of seeing much of any of that back. So the implication that my greed makes you sick is disappointing to hear, at best.
Beyond that, I dunno.. I love my iPhone, but it cost me hundreds of dollars for "the core", plus I'm stuck with AT&T for more hundreds of dollars than I might pay elsewhere. Moreover Apple has a huge machine (volume) that puts them in much better position to make money on micro-payments. As pointed out in other discussions, we hardly make money on anything under $15. Joomla is joomla... I thought up concrete CMS 6 years ago in a bar because I was tired of working with Mambo, joomla's daddy. meh. ;)
I've gone on way to long. There's more thoughts over here:
http://www.concrete5.org/about/what_does_free_mean_/...
Clearly, this is something that hits home with me or I wouldn't get sucked into useless replies of this length. Let me just stress: I think we're doing the right thing here by offering a solid and free core, with the UI and owner focused aspects of the web development process being the priced assets. It gives everyone a chance to compete, and if we can continue to deliver a framework where these add-ons don't collide and all play nicely with each other - THAT more than anything will position us above the drupal/joomla/wordpress CMS baheemoth...
(although frankly its expressionEngine and SquareSpace we look at these days.. shhhhh!)
If someone has a better business model for me, I'm all ears. I've looked long and hard at what we're doing and I think it's the best. DotNetNuke basically went this way and I think we can do better in every way.