html5 and css compliance
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I'm a graphic designer with a client who wants me to build them a website, and suggests concrete5.Other designers have told me that I need to make sure my site is html5 and css compliant so that it works with all browsers. I've searched you site and haven't found any information on compliance. Can you help? Thanks!
Frz is, of course, correct. I just ran one of my themes through the w3.org checker and got 4 errors and 3 warnings all of which are caused by my code. But, I know what Im doing and the checker doesn't according to their own admission:
"The validator checked your document with an experimental feature: HTML5 Conformance Checker. This feature has been made available for your convenience, but be aware that it may be unreliable, or not perfectly up to date with the latest development of some cutting-edge technologies. If you find any issues with this feature, please report them. Thank you."
"The validator checked your document with an experimental feature: HTML5 Conformance Checker. This feature has been made available for your convenience, but be aware that it may be unreliable, or not perfectly up to date with the latest development of some cutting-edge technologies. If you find any issues with this feature, please report them. Thank you."
Hi,
I know this topic is a few month old but I just wanted to point out that there seem to be a slight misunderstanding.
Being HTML5 compliant will definitely not make your website work with all browsers. To start with you will probably have issues with most versions of Internet explorer unless you take necessary steps to make them accept your code.
I think what you meant was HTML and CSS compliant, not HTML5 and CSS compliant. In that case I totally agree.
After coding your page you should check it in the w3c validation tool online.
Also, as you introduced yourself as a graphic designer I assume coding pages is not your forte so it might be a bit risky to do that without serious practice, especially with a CMS. Concrete5 is easy to figure out but still, you need to know the basics.
Anyway, just my two cents. Good luck to you.
I know this topic is a few month old but I just wanted to point out that there seem to be a slight misunderstanding.
Being HTML5 compliant will definitely not make your website work with all browsers. To start with you will probably have issues with most versions of Internet explorer unless you take necessary steps to make them accept your code.
I think what you meant was HTML and CSS compliant, not HTML5 and CSS compliant. In that case I totally agree.
After coding your page you should check it in the w3c validation tool online.
Also, as you introduced yourself as a graphic designer I assume coding pages is not your forte so it might be a bit risky to do that without serious practice, especially with a CMS. Concrete5 is easy to figure out but still, you need to know the basics.
Anyway, just my two cents. Good luck to you.
Just some broader comments on this topic (more for reference)- I've recently finished developing an HTML5 site in concrete5. I chose HTML5 because the site needed to be both highly accessible as well as an example of 'best practices' of accessibility in itself. The HTML5 in no way made the site accessible automatically; I had to carefully construct the structure of the pages, add things like 'skip' links and do a lot of testing with screen readers, etc.
I was torn between doing it in html4 and html5, but ultimately went with html5 because its new tags are better from a semantic point of view, and the site wasn't overly complex. Perhaps it 'future proofs' the site a bit too.
Concrete5 was great for this, as I had full control over the template and I could create custom templates for blocks where necessary. I make particular use of page types and custom attributes (and the composer), making it easy for my client to add content with the correct HTML5 markup. I couldn't have been happier in this regard.
As has been said, HTML5 does not guarantee browser compatibility though, older browsers simply don't understand the new tags and features without some extra help.
There is a thing called an html5 'shiv' (or 'shim'), that uses javascript to make older browsers work with html5. There are also other considerations to make. Luckily there has been a lot of work on this, with one of the best starting points for HTML5 being http://html5boilerplate.com/
If you are serious about semantics and code, study, study, study this boilerplate code. I learnt a lot.
In the concrete5 marketplace there is a free theme that is based off of this boilerplate code. (thanks to Patrick Heck) http://www.concrete5.org/marketplace/themes/theme-blank-html5-boile...
It's very good - it's what I used for much of the site I mentioned above.
So in summary, it's going to be easier to make sites cross browser compatible with HTML4, leaving just the CSS to battle with. If you pick HTML5, you'll need to be aware of the techniques you'll need to use to make the code compatible across browsers.
Just some notes if anyone comes across this thread.
I was torn between doing it in html4 and html5, but ultimately went with html5 because its new tags are better from a semantic point of view, and the site wasn't overly complex. Perhaps it 'future proofs' the site a bit too.
Concrete5 was great for this, as I had full control over the template and I could create custom templates for blocks where necessary. I make particular use of page types and custom attributes (and the composer), making it easy for my client to add content with the correct HTML5 markup. I couldn't have been happier in this regard.
As has been said, HTML5 does not guarantee browser compatibility though, older browsers simply don't understand the new tags and features without some extra help.
There is a thing called an html5 'shiv' (or 'shim'), that uses javascript to make older browsers work with html5. There are also other considerations to make. Luckily there has been a lot of work on this, with one of the best starting points for HTML5 being http://html5boilerplate.com/
If you are serious about semantics and code, study, study, study this boilerplate code. I learnt a lot.
In the concrete5 marketplace there is a free theme that is based off of this boilerplate code. (thanks to Patrick Heck) http://www.concrete5.org/marketplace/themes/theme-blank-html5-boile...
It's very good - it's what I used for much of the site I mentioned above.
So in summary, it's going to be easier to make sites cross browser compatible with HTML4, leaving just the CSS to battle with. If you pick HTML5, you'll need to be aware of the techniques you'll need to use to make the code compatible across browsers.
Just some notes if anyone comes across this thread.
Try this at home!
Replace:
!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN"
"http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/loose.dtd"
with:
!DOCTYPE html
and check your site page here:
http://validator.w3.org/
Voila! HTML5
Replace:
!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN"
"http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/loose.dtd"
with:
!DOCTYPE html
and check your site page here:
http://validator.w3.org/
Voila! HTML5
Although you might get a document to validate as HTML5 simply by changing the doctype, this isn't a good idea - it misses the point of html5.
Valid html does not equal 'good' html5. Validation is simply a way to check for syntax errors and markup that doesn't fit the spec. It's not going to check for a decent page structure, use of semantic headings, etc.
If you aren't going to use the new html5 elements like nav, header, footer, aside, section, article, etc, there's no point using an html5 doctype.
Valid html does not equal 'good' html5. Validation is simply a way to check for syntax errors and markup that doesn't fit the spec. It's not going to check for a decent page structure, use of semantic headings, etc.
If you aren't going to use the new html5 elements like nav, header, footer, aside, section, article, etc, there's no point using an html5 doctype.
Please DON'T try this at home kids!
As mesuva said '!DOCTYPE html' does NOT make a website HTML5.
And please don't use 'loose.dtd' It's old and in some cases dangerous, not least with IE quirks mode!
At best use 'Strict', but mind the gap, at worst use'Transitional'.
+1 for HTML5, it allows for a better layout and a far better way to design a cross browser, multiply device, accessible and semantic website.
There shed loads of websites and templates out there that profess to be HTML5, but all they have is '!DOCTYPE html' at the top with 'XHTML' end tags in the head, 'Transitional' iframes and/or 'Flash', tables?, java applets? or my pet hate FRAMESETS!
Not validating HTML5 with W3C is rubbish, all my sites validate. What they don't validate with is CSS3, but that's not my concern, it's up to the browser vendor to render what I create.
My mobile site is responsive HTML5, it works with every browser, that I can test with - 10, on both Mac and Windows, and ALL mobile devices I can test with using iOS, Android and Symbian.
The only difference is with IE, prior 9 or 10. You could think of it like having a 2D black and white TV.
Or you could use Camino, Chrome, Firefox, Opera, Rockmelt or Safari and get full colour in 3D.
I know which way I would go?
So - Compliance?
HTML5 + W3C = Yes
HTML5 + Accessibility = Yes
HTML5 + Clean code = Yes
HTML5 + Concrete5 = YES YES YES
Just do it, you'll be glad you did
As mesuva said '!DOCTYPE html' does NOT make a website HTML5.
And please don't use 'loose.dtd' It's old and in some cases dangerous, not least with IE quirks mode!
At best use 'Strict', but mind the gap, at worst use'Transitional'.
+1 for HTML5, it allows for a better layout and a far better way to design a cross browser, multiply device, accessible and semantic website.
There shed loads of websites and templates out there that profess to be HTML5, but all they have is '!DOCTYPE html' at the top with 'XHTML' end tags in the head, 'Transitional' iframes and/or 'Flash', tables?, java applets? or my pet hate FRAMESETS!
Not validating HTML5 with W3C is rubbish, all my sites validate. What they don't validate with is CSS3, but that's not my concern, it's up to the browser vendor to render what I create.
My mobile site is responsive HTML5, it works with every browser, that I can test with - 10, on both Mac and Windows, and ALL mobile devices I can test with using iOS, Android and Symbian.
The only difference is with IE, prior 9 or 10. You could think of it like having a 2D black and white TV.
Or you could use Camino, Chrome, Firefox, Opera, Rockmelt or Safari and get full colour in 3D.
I know which way I would go?
So - Compliance?
HTML5 + W3C = Yes
HTML5 + Accessibility = Yes
HTML5 + Clean code = Yes
HTML5 + Concrete5 = YES YES YES
Just do it, you'll be glad you did
in the marketplace may not make code you like, but you won't have to
use them.
best wishes
Franz Maruna
CEO - concrete5.org
http://about.me/frz