More flexible Pricing model (again)
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Hello,
I'm new to Concrete5 and I'm evaluating it in my private time for my company. Well it's not MY company, I'm employed. I don't know how to spell it right in English.
As I'm planning a private blog I decided not to use Wordpress but Concrete5 to learn how it works and to know if it's suitable for my company.
I've seen some discussions on the pricing and I know how they are liked here. But I try it anyway. ;-)
First, I like the way with the free Core and the Add-ons for less money. It's somehow it works for Rapidweaver/Mac for some years. I see that investing this low price could save lots of money compared to developing it by myself. I won't compare Concrete5 with Rapidweaver, but their Add-ons are much cheaper than the Concrete5 Add-ons. But that's not the Point.
Most tools and solutions we use I've evaluated at home or in a free time at work. Many of them are free for private use but not for commercial use. For Example the YAML CSS Framework and the highslide Lightbox clone. We use (and payed for) them in the company because I've used them before in private projects or on my local machine.
If I hadn't the opportunity to test them deeply for free I would have looked for other solutions.
Concrete5 is very promising but I see we need some add-ons to fulfill our needs. I can't tell my boss to buy something where it is not clear if it's suitable for us.
So it would be nice to have the add-ons cheaper or maybe free for non-commercial usage so I and of course other interested people can play with them.
I know this would let you think this could cause more "pirating". I can't tell you about the other projects if they have big problems with that. I just remember that the YAML Project looked for commercial pages using non licensed versions of YAML and most people payed then.
If you don't want to change the marketplace in this way you should consider to provide a way people could evaluate the Add-ons. This could be detailed videos as some still do or a Concrete5 playground on the web, maybe individual playgrounds for every customer.
Have a nice day,
Willi
I'm new to Concrete5 and I'm evaluating it in my private time for my company. Well it's not MY company, I'm employed. I don't know how to spell it right in English.
As I'm planning a private blog I decided not to use Wordpress but Concrete5 to learn how it works and to know if it's suitable for my company.
I've seen some discussions on the pricing and I know how they are liked here. But I try it anyway. ;-)
First, I like the way with the free Core and the Add-ons for less money. It's somehow it works for Rapidweaver/Mac for some years. I see that investing this low price could save lots of money compared to developing it by myself. I won't compare Concrete5 with Rapidweaver, but their Add-ons are much cheaper than the Concrete5 Add-ons. But that's not the Point.
Most tools and solutions we use I've evaluated at home or in a free time at work. Many of them are free for private use but not for commercial use. For Example the YAML CSS Framework and the highslide Lightbox clone. We use (and payed for) them in the company because I've used them before in private projects or on my local machine.
If I hadn't the opportunity to test them deeply for free I would have looked for other solutions.
Concrete5 is very promising but I see we need some add-ons to fulfill our needs. I can't tell my boss to buy something where it is not clear if it's suitable for us.
So it would be nice to have the add-ons cheaper or maybe free for non-commercial usage so I and of course other interested people can play with them.
I know this would let you think this could cause more "pirating". I can't tell you about the other projects if they have big problems with that. I just remember that the YAML Project looked for commercial pages using non licensed versions of YAML and most people payed then.
If you don't want to change the marketplace in this way you should consider to provide a way people could evaluate the Add-ons. This could be detailed videos as some still do or a Concrete5 playground on the web, maybe individual playgrounds for every customer.
Have a nice day,
Willi
I once had an argument with a boss about paying $12 a month for a online form service. He wanted me to learn javascripting and make it myself. I was swamped with work and said it wasn't the best use of my time and would prefer to pay the monthly fee, get it up running that day, and move onto more important tasks. After about 30 minutes of going back and forth I pointed out that the time we were spending on "discussing" this was costing the company more than the cost of the service for a year and was delaying implementing something we needed immediately. Penny wise, Pound foolish...
...OK, so what's my point? What's the $55 blog add-on fee really worth to your company when compared to your time and the total value they would get out being able to evaluate it, and - perhaps - eventually deploy it? I'm assuming that the blog would be used as part of a larger promotion plan intended to build brand awareness, expand your customer base, and ultimately increase sales? How much is $55 compared to a daily AdWord campaign budget, or some goofy pens with your logo printed on them that get handed out to some stranger at a trade show, or a couple reams of paper for the office printer?
I think the $55 is a bargain :-)
...OK, so what's my point? What's the $55 blog add-on fee really worth to your company when compared to your time and the total value they would get out being able to evaluate it, and - perhaps - eventually deploy it? I'm assuming that the blog would be used as part of a larger promotion plan intended to build brand awareness, expand your customer base, and ultimately increase sales? How much is $55 compared to a daily AdWord campaign budget, or some goofy pens with your logo printed on them that get handed out to some stranger at a trade show, or a couple reams of paper for the office printer?
I think the $55 is a bargain :-)
Sorry, it seems you have not understood what I mean.
I'm not speaking of the price in general. I'm speaking of non-commercial usage of the add-ons. For commercial usage the price is more than okay, but not for private people. $55 is quite a lot of money for a private person who just wants to blog about the growth of his baby or something else. Or think of students who learn doing websites. They are the future of the business.
Some years ago when Adobe and Macromedia were fighting for customers Macromedia sold FreeHand for a cheap price to students and schools in Germany, so they went market leader for professional illustration software in Germany. In the rest of the world Adobe Illustrator was the market leader because Macromedia sold FreeHand for this cheap price only in Germany. Students who learned using FreeHand at school or at home wanted to use it also for their business and there they had to pay the full price.
I'm not speaking of the price in general. I'm speaking of non-commercial usage of the add-ons. For commercial usage the price is more than okay, but not for private people. $55 is quite a lot of money for a private person who just wants to blog about the growth of his baby or something else. Or think of students who learn doing websites. They are the future of the business.
Some years ago when Adobe and Macromedia were fighting for customers Macromedia sold FreeHand for a cheap price to students and schools in Germany, so they went market leader for professional illustration software in Germany. In the rest of the world Adobe Illustrator was the market leader because Macromedia sold FreeHand for this cheap price only in Germany. Students who learned using FreeHand at school or at home wanted to use it also for their business and there they had to pay the full price.
I still think that even for private use, 50$ is cheap. If a student or someone is not willing to pay such a small amount well there are free to take many days searching for a fully free solution with 10,000 free plugins that are not very well developed.
The point is the same, they need $$ to make better add-ons and support. It IS simple as that.
"Time cost money for business and money give motivation for whom give it free."
There are plenty of full free stuff online that will cost nothing at all but to be honest, I've tested many and concrete5 save me time and money on so many different ways. Even for personal use.
I think that if someone cannot afford 20$ or 50$, they should find another free cheaper solution online.
The point is the same, they need $$ to make better add-ons and support. It IS simple as that.
"Time cost money for business and money give motivation for whom give it free."
There are plenty of full free stuff online that will cost nothing at all but to be honest, I've tested many and concrete5 save me time and money on so many different ways. Even for personal use.
I think that if someone cannot afford 20$ or 50$, they should find another free cheaper solution online.
well you did write that you were "evaluating it in my private time for my company..." so my reply was targeted at that :-)
Regarding the pricing: What you're suggesting is a valid pricing strategy for a larger company with funding or multiple product lines that help offset losses for introductory pricing in a new product line, but (and I'm coming in as an outsider making some assumptions here) these guys can't afford to do that.
Regarding the pricing: What you're suggesting is a valid pricing strategy for a larger company with funding or multiple product lines that help offset losses for introductory pricing in a new product line, but (and I'm coming in as an outsider making some assumptions here) these guys can't afford to do that.
WilliW: i kinda like the idea of discounts for students or non-profits, might be a bit tricky to implement though. one of the main things i base pricing on though is just the amount of support i have to give for that addon, and that doesn't differ greatly between commercial and non-commercial buyers.
Thanks for your answers. I can understand you points but I think then you have to give some alternatives.
You're right. $50 is cheap if you save time and nerves but what if it does not fulfill the needs as promised? When company looses $50 it's nearby nothing, but for private people throwing away $50 is a big thing.
Maybe I went in the wrong direction. My intention for this post was to be able to test all facilities of Concrete5 and its Add-ons without thinking about money or without having discussions about financing the evaluation. At the moment I can't compare similar Add-on as I have to pay for all of themeven if I use only one Add-on at last.
That's why I also suggested hosted demos or detailed videos.
Or think about “try before buy” what is very successful in the desktop application industry. I know, scripts are not the same as binary apps, so I haven't suggested this. Bundles are also very successful. A blogging bundle would be nice for example with all Add-ons for creating nice blogs.
@Tony: I haven't thought about the support yet. I assumed the payed Add-ons won't get more support than the free ones or the company driven free ones for other CMS. Even payed Software very often has really bad support. I've bought some apps which are discontinued or feel like discontinued. My trust in support is limited. Well on the Mac I've also many Apps with good support, but that are not my essential every day Apps.
I see you're quite responsive to support requests but I also see some unanswered requests so it does not feel different to the support I see for some free Drupal modules. What guarantees do I have that I not only get the Add-on for the money but also good support? I don't even see a sentence about support so it wouldn't go into the value for me.
But I could be wrong. I haven't bought an Add-on yet and I also haven't posted any support request.
I hope I don't get misunderstood here. As you see, my English is not that good. I don't want to insult anyone here. I just think the marketplace is far from perfect and is not very attractive. There are lots of add-ons without screenshots and many have very short descriptions. In general I like the idea with the free core and the marketplace.
I shot in the wrong direction with the pricing thing in the initial post. My main point is complaining about the inability to evaluate the Add-ons.
You're right. $50 is cheap if you save time and nerves but what if it does not fulfill the needs as promised? When company looses $50 it's nearby nothing, but for private people throwing away $50 is a big thing.
Maybe I went in the wrong direction. My intention for this post was to be able to test all facilities of Concrete5 and its Add-ons without thinking about money or without having discussions about financing the evaluation. At the moment I can't compare similar Add-on as I have to pay for all of themeven if I use only one Add-on at last.
That's why I also suggested hosted demos or detailed videos.
Or think about “try before buy” what is very successful in the desktop application industry. I know, scripts are not the same as binary apps, so I haven't suggested this. Bundles are also very successful. A blogging bundle would be nice for example with all Add-ons for creating nice blogs.
@Tony: I haven't thought about the support yet. I assumed the payed Add-ons won't get more support than the free ones or the company driven free ones for other CMS. Even payed Software very often has really bad support. I've bought some apps which are discontinued or feel like discontinued. My trust in support is limited. Well on the Mac I've also many Apps with good support, but that are not my essential every day Apps.
I see you're quite responsive to support requests but I also see some unanswered requests so it does not feel different to the support I see for some free Drupal modules. What guarantees do I have that I not only get the Add-on for the money but also good support? I don't even see a sentence about support so it wouldn't go into the value for me.
But I could be wrong. I haven't bought an Add-on yet and I also haven't posted any support request.
I hope I don't get misunderstood here. As you see, my English is not that good. I don't want to insult anyone here. I just think the marketplace is far from perfect and is not very attractive. There are lots of add-ons without screenshots and many have very short descriptions. In general I like the idea with the free core and the marketplace.
I shot in the wrong direction with the pricing thing in the initial post. My main point is complaining about the inability to evaluate the Add-ons.
How about we just make it easier for developers to make a demo for the addon that resets itself every hour like we did for ecomerce and discussions?
this lets you get in and test the features without giving away the source.
i dont see us running these demo servers for every add-on our selves, but if we ever had half a minute to write up a white paper on how we did the hourly reset demo for ecom/discussions it'd probably give a 3rd party developer who wants to increase sales some powerful tools to do so.
tada.
this lets you get in and test the features without giving away the source.
i dont see us running these demo servers for every add-on our selves, but if we ever had half a minute to write up a white paper on how we did the hourly reset demo for ecom/discussions it'd probably give a 3rd party developer who wants to increase sales some powerful tools to do so.
tada.
frz: that makes a lot of sense.
Having a demo for each paid add-on would be of great benefit.
Having a demo for each paid add-on would be of great benefit.
I agree. Having a "try before you buy" demo makes people comfortable about their purchase (and maybe even tempts them to purchase).
Yes, a demo for every Add-on would be fine. It could also be helpful for support requests.
for any one who is interested, the How to is on how to create a demo site is herehttp://www.concrete5.org/documentation/how-tos/create-your-own-conc...
I would also like to see a few more demos,
does anyone know if and where I can find a demo of any one of the 3 current blog add ons offered. I can find nothing other then descriptions and images about them.
While I don't mind paying the fee for the add on a demo area would really be good to have.
does anyone know if and where I can find a demo of any one of the 3 current blog add ons offered. I can find nothing other then descriptions and images about them.
While I don't mind paying the fee for the add on a demo area would really be good to have.
Try Lightweight Blog before you buy anything. I have it installed here as a demohttp://staticside.c5themepark.com/blog/... It is the wonderful creation of JordanLev.
Cheers,
Steve
Cheers,
Steve
Thank you for the link, It looks very nice, however I am attempting to show a potential client how to use the back end, so could really do with a demo that allows access to the backend just to play with creating and editing blogs,
The only comment I have to say about the marketplace is that developers should put more details and video screecast is a must if there are no demo url.