Suggestion: Concrete5 is getting a bit heavy
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I just built a site with the new 5.5 version and I noticed it took a rather long time to load pages as well as the admin panel. It also takes at least an hour to upload the thousands of files to a live host via FTP.
One of Concrete5's strongest features is how robust and flexible it is. You can do so much with it. I recently searched for another CMS that would allow editing like c5 without being so heavy and could not find one that would do what I needed. However there are many things that are included by default that I (and I'm sure many others) just don't use.
In order to allow concrete5 to be a bit more lightweight perhaps some changes could be made that allow some packages to be chosen at installation. Just like there is an option to install sample content or not, perhaps that default install includes everything that concrete5 has default now with the sample content, while a more customized install would allow you to choose whether or not other options are included (such as composer, the news module, and perhaps the reports?) as well as without sample content. I know you can turn these things off or not allow access to them for certain users, but why have all the files sitting around taking up space and bandwidth?
I know the core team works really hard to keep c5 intuitive and working well, but maybe now is the time to keep in mind the benefits of being (or the option to be) a lighweight CMS.
Just something to consider.
One of Concrete5's strongest features is how robust and flexible it is. You can do so much with it. I recently searched for another CMS that would allow editing like c5 without being so heavy and could not find one that would do what I needed. However there are many things that are included by default that I (and I'm sure many others) just don't use.
In order to allow concrete5 to be a bit more lightweight perhaps some changes could be made that allow some packages to be chosen at installation. Just like there is an option to install sample content or not, perhaps that default install includes everything that concrete5 has default now with the sample content, while a more customized install would allow you to choose whether or not other options are included (such as composer, the news module, and perhaps the reports?) as well as without sample content. I know you can turn these things off or not allow access to them for certain users, but why have all the files sitting around taking up space and bandwidth?
I know the core team works really hard to keep c5 intuitive and working well, but maybe now is the time to keep in mind the benefits of being (or the option to be) a lighweight CMS.
Just something to consider.
Good points.
I do love concrete5 and as I said I looked for a more lightweight CMS only to find they really lacked in their capabilities.
Now that you put it that way, it doesn't seem like there's much to be done in regard to being lightweight.
(I do really hate composer though...not even sure what that's for...)
I do love concrete5 and as I said I looked for a more lightweight CMS only to find they really lacked in their capabilities.
Now that you put it that way, it doesn't seem like there's much to be done in regard to being lightweight.
(I do really hate composer though...not even sure what that's for...)
In the next major version we're going to be looking at the way we
handle file overrides. Right now one of many "flexible and powerful"
parts of concrete5 is the override system where you can take files out
of the core without forking the core. Great idea, but the way we've
implemented it can mean thousands of "if file exists..." type calls
before a single page loads. We have some ideas on improving that.
Yes, uploading a Zip and unpacking it is much better than uploading
individual files. You run less of a risk of a single file not making
it fully and causing hard to debug weirdness later.
Composer is handy if you need it. A traditional form based data entry
option to compliment the in-context editing.
best wishes
Franz Maruna
CEO - concrete5.org
http://about.me/frz
handle file overrides. Right now one of many "flexible and powerful"
parts of concrete5 is the override system where you can take files out
of the core without forking the core. Great idea, but the way we've
implemented it can mean thousands of "if file exists..." type calls
before a single page loads. We have some ideas on improving that.
Yes, uploading a Zip and unpacking it is much better than uploading
individual files. You run less of a risk of a single file not making
it fully and causing hard to debug weirdness later.
Composer is handy if you need it. A traditional form based data entry
option to compliment the in-context editing.
best wishes
Franz Maruna
CEO - concrete5.org
http://about.me/frz
Thank you, frz. I see the core team has already been thinking about this.
I have only recently heard about the unzipping a file on the server itself. I will try this on my next site launch. (I have had some of the weird issues probably because of files not fully uploading before.)
Can't wait for the next version!
I have only recently heard about the unzipping a file on the server itself. I will try this on my next site launch. (I have had some of the weird issues probably because of files not fully uploading before.)
Can't wait for the next version!
Heres a video showing concrete5 uploading 9 very large images at 1263 px x 1764, all in under a minute, at roughly 5 seconds per. I wonder why so many people look at concrete as the reason their connection is garbage, before looking at the connection itself.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=leSYSB6yeKU...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=leSYSB6yeKU...
Well I developed the site on my local stand alone box before pushing it live and it still performed rather slowly even there.
Okay so you have a local machine a few feet away, I am using a server on the opposite side of the continent, west coast Canada to Jacksonville Florida.
My stuff uploads in seconds, yours does not. Would logic dictate that it must be something in c5 or with the equipment your using ? My c5 installation is slow, that persons is not, must be c5 that slows me down? I just can't follow that line of thinking.
My stuff uploads in seconds, yours does not. Would logic dictate that it must be something in c5 or with the equipment your using ? My c5 installation is slow, that persons is not, must be c5 that slows me down? I just can't follow that line of thinking.
There's no need to be so aggressive. I posted this as a suggestion to improve concrete5 and have a discussion about it. I don't know why you are getting so up in arms about it.
I love using concrete5 and want to improve upon it, but as I am not a developer I cannot contribute to the core or make add-ons so the least I can do is assess user experience and provide suggestions for improvement.
You are correct that it could be other things rather than c5, but logically, that word you are so fond of using, each possible cause has the same probability of being the culprit.
Perhaps I should have mentioned, I have developed many sites with c5 hosted in various environments and noticed a trend in page load time & upload time. The most recent one that i did mention however was the only one I had built on the newest 5.5 version and it was noticeably slower than the others, so I (perhaps wrongly) assumed that c5's size was affecting the speed of the site.
I love using concrete5 and want to improve upon it, but as I am not a developer I cannot contribute to the core or make add-ons so the least I can do is assess user experience and provide suggestions for improvement.
You are correct that it could be other things rather than c5, but logically, that word you are so fond of using, each possible cause has the same probability of being the culprit.
Perhaps I should have mentioned, I have developed many sites with c5 hosted in various environments and noticed a trend in page load time & upload time. The most recent one that i did mention however was the only one I had built on the newest 5.5 version and it was noticeably slower than the others, so I (perhaps wrongly) assumed that c5's size was affecting the speed of the site.
Its not aggressive, its common sense. I have only used the word logic once, so I am not sure where you get the impression that I am overly fond of that word. Apparently having a different opinion than you, and sharing it with video to back it up is considered an insult, or me being overly zealous. You must be a blast at dinner parties.
So how much longer do you plan on trolling the c5 forums?
Nah, everyone piston has valid views. Theyre just different prospectives and were suffering from not being in a room together with beers.
Let's all move on now, please. We're worried about ease of optimization and performance, amongst other things.
Best wishes
Pecked out on an iPhone
Let's all move on now, please. We're worried about ease of optimization and performance, amongst other things.
Best wishes
Pecked out on an iPhone
Okay okay. Let's all go enjoy our weekends now.
Yes, concrete5 was not designed with performance in mind over functionality or flexibility. No that doesn't mean we don't care about anyone who doesn't have the cash for a dedicated server. We're always improving everything, including speed. It's totally valid when someone points out concrete5 is slow for them. It's like when someone tells you that you smell. You may not agree, but for them- you do. Why and what to do is a separate matter
Best wishes
Pecked out on an iPhone
Yes, concrete5 was not designed with performance in mind over functionality or flexibility. No that doesn't mean we don't care about anyone who doesn't have the cash for a dedicated server. We're always improving everything, including speed. It's totally valid when someone points out concrete5 is slow for them. It's like when someone tells you that you smell. You may not agree, but for them- you do. Why and what to do is a separate matter
Best wishes
Pecked out on an iPhone
Always worth looking in the mirror to see why a site loads slowly
http://www.webpagetest.org/result/120609_9A_C26/1/details/...
http://www.webpagetest.org/result/120609_9A_C26/1/details/...
That was the first site I ever built with c5, and my first venture into PHP. I tried out many different scripts and add-ons. I could definitely have cleaned it up better after development was done. I personally believe I have gotten better at developing sites, but I'm sure there are plenty of things I can do to speed up page load time that has nothing to do with C5.
I'm not complaining by any means, but as an open source project, c5 relies a lot on the community to give feedback and contribute to improving the product.
Since you are pointing out one of my sites slow load times, would you happen to know any resources on tips & tricks for speeding up page load time?
I'm not complaining by any means, but as an open source project, c5 relies a lot on the community to give feedback and contribute to improving the product.
Since you are pointing out one of my sites slow load times, would you happen to know any resources on tips & tricks for speeding up page load time?
Google webmaster tools have some excellent guidelines to help streamline your sites,
Also this is well worth a go at speeding up your site..
http://sourceforge.net/projects/miser/...
A discussion on miser can be seen here..
http://www.concrete5.org/community/forums/customizing_c5/miser-web-...
Also this is well worth a go at speeding up your site..
http://sourceforge.net/projects/miser/...
A discussion on miser can be seen here..
http://www.concrete5.org/community/forums/customizing_c5/miser-web-...
Thank you very much for the links.
You also want to play with cache settings in concrete5. There's a
number of how-tos in our docs on it, and depending on your server's
particulars different configurations may speed up or slow down the
whole experience.
best wishes
Franz Maruna
CEO - concrete5.org
http://about.me/frz
number of how-tos in our docs on it, and depending on your server's
particulars different configurations may speed up or slow down the
whole experience.
best wishes
Franz Maruna
CEO - concrete5.org
http://about.me/frz
JordanLev put together a list of files that can be deleted before uploading the core if you are making English sites--saving ~8-9mb. Check out the GitHub repo:
https://github.com/jordanlev/c5_cleanup_zend_locale_data...
It looks like this is for C5.4.2.2. Not sure if this would work with 5.5+ sites or not.
https://github.com/jordanlev/c5_cleanup_zend_locale_data...
It looks like this is for C5.4.2.2. Not sure if this would work with 5.5+ sites or not.
Yes concrete5 could be considered a fairly heavy system compared to other CMS systems, but I know that the core team has been working to make things more efficient. 5.5.x is quicker than 5.4.x and I'm sure with every release one of their goals is to make things snappier.
Ultimately though, I believe it does come down to the quality of the hosting your sites are on. I've tried to run concrete5 on some slower/cheaper hosts, and it's been a frustrating experience... but I've also run it on some still inexpensive, but newer servers and it absolutely flies, with many of my live sites out performing my local development versions. It's also important to play around with caching settings.
Removing features from concrete5 wouldn't really make it faster either I don't believe. It's the main function of loading a page, fetching blocks, handling caching, hitting the database, checking permissions, template rendering, etc, that is where the main processing is done. Things like the composer and reports only take up a tiny percentage of the actual file size of concrete5, but don't impact the performance in any way, so it's better to have them in there than leave them out. The composer is one thing that I use on nearly every site I build now too!
I'm also not really worried about the space it takes up on the server to be honest, for most hosting plans it's only a tiny fraction of the available space.
If it's taking you an hour to upload via FTP, I'd suggest you are either using a slower connection or a slower host. Yes there are tons of files to upload (and I do wish there were fewer), but it doesn't normally take that long for me. One suggestion with this - you can often upload zip of your site to your host and unzip using something like cPanel's file manager. It's the overhead of the FTP communication that slows things down, not the actual size of data being transmitted, so if you can get it into one big file it should only take minutes.
So I'm not disagreeing with you, it would always be nice if concrete5 was faster and smaller, but I guess I'm pointing out that the number of features a CMS has doesn't directly relate to its performance.