Systematizing Donations for Development & Support
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I want to suggest that in the marketplace and forums here on Concrete5.org there be a system to allow members with an account to "donate/contribute" to developers that help them, or in support of a project.
Some developers already have donate buttons on their own sites. But in many cases the barrier to that really being a revenue source is that most of the people using that developers stuff never reaches the site or the timing isn't right, you see the donate button before or after the fact and not right when you're thinking hey I could send them a few dollars in support.
I think this would provide a nice filler into the gap there is there sometimes between client work, licensing revenue. I know that there are times in both C5 but also in WP and Drupal where I see something really cool even if I don't use it myself I think hey let's give a few dollars to that. And I would like to receive revenue that way also. It would tend to help us move more things open source instead of being premium.
On that point I'm not against some addons being premium. Bigger things like an events system, ecommerce, things you might need only for 1 special site... where even if it was free the total users would be low and where the value to the user is high. What is frustrating is when there is an addon that is more like a utility, it's fairly small but would be useful, and you want to use it on many sites... and it's $40. And I often think if we saw user stats, some of these $40 packages would have 10 or 20 sales. So that's under $1,000 in revenue meaning the developer makes maybe $2/hour. I'm sure there are exceptions, maybe the top 5 developers of addons are making a solid living... a single popular packages could have few hundred sales, bring in thousands. But most won't!
Consider for example Spacer. Would you pay for Spacer package? I wouldn't, I'd vote for that solution being core if possible but the point is I will use it every time I need to solve that problem of no space between blocks and no wrapper divs. I would not pay $15 for it every license but would I chip in $5 to the developer? Sure. And I bet hundreds of others would too.
Now think about the math here for a moment. You have a cool package that could be useful on most sites. You make it $20 hoping people will need it want it buy it. You make 100 sales. That's $2,000 total and $1,500 goes to you as a developer and $500 to C5. Great. Now 100 people have the benefit and C5 is stronger as an overall solution for 100 sites. Now lets look at the alternative:
10% of sites adopt your package that is free which is roughly (based on BuiltWith data) 8,000 websites. Now 8K sites have found C5 that much more beneficial. Good for the community, good for adoption. If all 8K who install that see a prominent option to donate to support development (during install) a mere 1% conversion results in 800 donations. At $5 per donation average the revenue is $4,000. Now that is double the marketplace sales revenue.
So if we measure things in terms of direct revenue (cash) and indirect revenue (exposure/adoption/popularity) the really win with this model is that this will drive up C5 adoption overall. It will add value to more sites. It will make earning small amounts of money easier for developers. And it doesn't have to be small amounts, but the point is that even if you're addon had a limited adoption rate, even if you might call it a failure, at least every person that likes it can send you a little money. You can recoup some investment. Whereas a premium addon that fails, will probably get little or no sales at all. Without success and momentum and reviews, it will sit there and rot. And in fact if you're not good at marketing your premium addon or theme in various ways, it might sit there as a hidden gem and people use an inferior alternative because it's pitched better and nobody wants to risk trying what you created.
Now in this idea it might seem like I'm forgetting that C5 core needs some revenue. Well first off I've heard recently that only 13% of C5 revenue comes from marketplace commissions. So that's pretty weak to begin with. I think the fair approach here is that donations that are going through Concrete5 during installations or on project pages or in the forum all have a 25% commission applied. This way there is no competition between marketplace licensing and donation funding, both support the community and the individual developers equally and it becomes a matter of which approach fits your particular project.
Here are the specifics on how this might be implemented:
1) On marketplace project pages. In the sidebar "This package is free, if it benefits you consider a contribution to the developer of $5" and then there would be a drop-down with other amounts up to $100.
2) On the C5 addon installer. Similar language and button options, maybe links back to concrete5.org to actually process.
3) Follow-up email. Noticed you installed a free C5 package could you please review it and consider a donation to support development?
4) Developer profile pages. Make this an option in the user account if you want a donate button to show on your profile page.
5) In the forum posts. Best answer... consider a small donation to the person who helped you and there is a little button to click. This could also lead to sponsored help requests where a bounty of $10 is put up on a thread for best help.
Some developers already have donate buttons on their own sites. But in many cases the barrier to that really being a revenue source is that most of the people using that developers stuff never reaches the site or the timing isn't right, you see the donate button before or after the fact and not right when you're thinking hey I could send them a few dollars in support.
I think this would provide a nice filler into the gap there is there sometimes between client work, licensing revenue. I know that there are times in both C5 but also in WP and Drupal where I see something really cool even if I don't use it myself I think hey let's give a few dollars to that. And I would like to receive revenue that way also. It would tend to help us move more things open source instead of being premium.
On that point I'm not against some addons being premium. Bigger things like an events system, ecommerce, things you might need only for 1 special site... where even if it was free the total users would be low and where the value to the user is high. What is frustrating is when there is an addon that is more like a utility, it's fairly small but would be useful, and you want to use it on many sites... and it's $40. And I often think if we saw user stats, some of these $40 packages would have 10 or 20 sales. So that's under $1,000 in revenue meaning the developer makes maybe $2/hour. I'm sure there are exceptions, maybe the top 5 developers of addons are making a solid living... a single popular packages could have few hundred sales, bring in thousands. But most won't!
Consider for example Spacer. Would you pay for Spacer package? I wouldn't, I'd vote for that solution being core if possible but the point is I will use it every time I need to solve that problem of no space between blocks and no wrapper divs. I would not pay $15 for it every license but would I chip in $5 to the developer? Sure. And I bet hundreds of others would too.
Now think about the math here for a moment. You have a cool package that could be useful on most sites. You make it $20 hoping people will need it want it buy it. You make 100 sales. That's $2,000 total and $1,500 goes to you as a developer and $500 to C5. Great. Now 100 people have the benefit and C5 is stronger as an overall solution for 100 sites. Now lets look at the alternative:
10% of sites adopt your package that is free which is roughly (based on BuiltWith data) 8,000 websites. Now 8K sites have found C5 that much more beneficial. Good for the community, good for adoption. If all 8K who install that see a prominent option to donate to support development (during install) a mere 1% conversion results in 800 donations. At $5 per donation average the revenue is $4,000. Now that is double the marketplace sales revenue.
So if we measure things in terms of direct revenue (cash) and indirect revenue (exposure/adoption/popularity) the really win with this model is that this will drive up C5 adoption overall. It will add value to more sites. It will make earning small amounts of money easier for developers. And it doesn't have to be small amounts, but the point is that even if you're addon had a limited adoption rate, even if you might call it a failure, at least every person that likes it can send you a little money. You can recoup some investment. Whereas a premium addon that fails, will probably get little or no sales at all. Without success and momentum and reviews, it will sit there and rot. And in fact if you're not good at marketing your premium addon or theme in various ways, it might sit there as a hidden gem and people use an inferior alternative because it's pitched better and nobody wants to risk trying what you created.
Now in this idea it might seem like I'm forgetting that C5 core needs some revenue. Well first off I've heard recently that only 13% of C5 revenue comes from marketplace commissions. So that's pretty weak to begin with. I think the fair approach here is that donations that are going through Concrete5 during installations or on project pages or in the forum all have a 25% commission applied. This way there is no competition between marketplace licensing and donation funding, both support the community and the individual developers equally and it becomes a matter of which approach fits your particular project.
Here are the specifics on how this might be implemented:
1) On marketplace project pages. In the sidebar "This package is free, if it benefits you consider a contribution to the developer of $5" and then there would be a drop-down with other amounts up to $100.
2) On the C5 addon installer. Similar language and button options, maybe links back to concrete5.org to actually process.
3) Follow-up email. Noticed you installed a free C5 package could you please review it and consider a donation to support development?
4) Developer profile pages. Make this an option in the user account if you want a donate button to show on your profile page.
5) In the forum posts. Best answer... consider a small donation to the person who helped you and there is a little button to click. This could also lead to sponsored help requests where a bounty of $10 is put up on a thread for best help.
I would imagine there is some fairly significant time cost to putting this into place so it will only happen if a few hundred people said they would use it. I'm thinking the practical implementation is that there has to be an account credit system so you can deposit larger amounts such as $50. And then you can distribute that money as you wish in smaller amounts. Or you can start with $0 and receive funds, then distribute it. That feature of having credit in your account, is something I've seen requested and discussed already for the marketplace, not sure if that turned into a plan for the future or not but this would be another reason to have that option.
So I'll go on record now saying if this was built, I would put $100 into my account the day it's launched. What about you John would you pledge $100 as well?
Anybody else, how many others would make a deposit the day this was launched? I bet if you can get $10,000 pledged toward this initiative it will start to take shape.
So I'll go on record now saying if this was built, I would put $100 into my account the day it's launched. What about you John would you pledge $100 as well?
Anybody else, how many others would make a deposit the day this was launched? I bet if you can get $10,000 pledged toward this initiative it will start to take shape.
I doubt if an account credit system would be acceptable. When asked about before the official answer has quite reasonably been that concrete5 did not want to become a bank.
Its easy for developers (ie net suppliers) that already have growing funds on account from the marketplace. For anyone who is a net consumer the answer has always been pay as you go.
If you could find an acceptable model, I would quite happily commit to spend $100. I am confident it would be a good investment that would come back to me many-fold.
Its easy for developers (ie net suppliers) that already have growing funds on account from the marketplace. For anyone who is a net consumer the answer has always been pay as you go.
If you could find an acceptable model, I would quite happily commit to spend $100. I am confident it would be a good investment that would come back to me many-fold.
Don't want to be a bank? Okay, but that's not banking it's a technical solution to making microtransactions feasible. It is not affordable for me to send you $1 unless I use Bitcoin or another cryptocurrency. But if I can deposit $50, then send you $1 and it goes into a monthly payout, that is feasible.
Anyway this idea is not getting traction beyond the 2 of us so it's dead but thanks for sharing ideas these things sometimes resurface years later!
Anyway this idea is not getting traction beyond the 2 of us so it's dead but thanks for sharing ideas these things sometimes resurface years later!
I suspect the low interest shown in several threads targeted at experienced c5 users and developers has been the current bugs in the forum lists. This thread has become hidden several pages down the infinite scroll, so anyone who didn't subscribe within 1/2 day of your opening the thread is unlikely to have even seen it.
A standardised means of 'donating will encourage more free addons and especially encourage more that are based on GPL components.