Trying to convince boss that C5 is the best option for in-house CMS need help
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I'm a WP fan myself, but I love the potential of C5. What advantages over WP does C5 have as far as deployment and speed of developing themes?
The 8 minute theme video is awesome. I've built out a few themes on my own using that video.
And I guess I don't really get blocks very well yet, but I sorta understand them.
And I guess I don't really get blocks very well yet, but I sorta understand them.
I have built substantial sites with most of the PHP CMS's out there (wordpress, drupal, etc.).
I have found C5 to be a better solution than wordpress for certain kinds of sites -- specifically, marketing/informational sites that you are creating a custom design for. Wordpress is primarily designed for blog sites, so if you're building a site that is mostly a blog (with a few other non-blog pages), then wordpress is definitely the best solution. And if you want to get something up quickly based on a pre-made theme, and aren't going to be customizing much, wordpress is probably a better option because of the vast number of pre-built themes available (both free and premium/paid).
But if your site revolves around pages of information (text content, images, etc.), C5 wins hands-down because it is built for this purpose. Building a C5 theme always starts with your design, and you carve out whatever content areas you want in that design with as little or as much flexibility as you want to give the user. Wordpress on the other hand gives you one content area (for the "blog post"), and one sidebar. It is possible to work around this but not as smooth or easy as C5. Also, Wordpress has this one unified back-end dashboard to manage content, whereas with C5 you are editing things on the pages themselves -- this fits the user's mental model of what the website is much more closely than wordpress. So customizing your design is a much nicer flow with C5.
The big win of C5, which is kind of a subtle point, is that because the editing interface is block-based (as opposed to one monolithic dashboard), working with content makes much more sense. You don't need to stuff everything into a WYSIWYG editor like you do with wordpress. If you're only writing blog posts which are primarily text and images, the single WYSIWYG editor is fine, but if you want different things in different places (image galleries, youtube videos, lists of file downloads, etc.), C5's model makes it much easier to grasp and to work with for end-users.
Check out the Designer Content addon in the marketplace -- this is a prime example of where the block-based interface wins out against the WYSIWYG-only interface. It lets you design a specific interface for specific kinds of content that you want styled in a specific way. So if you have a block of content that has an image, a title, and a paragraph of text, and they all need to line up a certain way, it's much easier to create a custom block (with Designer Content) which has 1 field for the title, 1 field for the image, and 1 field for the paragraph of text -- as opposed to trying to explain to users how to float images left and right, how to use headings for the title in the WYSIWYG editor, etc. (Again, this all follows an assumption that you're starting with a custom design -- if you don't have that then the benefits of C5 are not as great).
Another benefit of C5 is the way you can easily override the output of any block with custom templates -- it really lets you hone in on your custom design. Just one more way for you as the designer to set things up for your client so they can easily manage the content and have it automatically get displayed in the proper way, as opposed to having to teach them how to align things and set them up properly in the one WYSIWYG editor.
So to summarize here, I'd say the overall benefit of C5 is that when you design a site, you're not just designing the front-end but also designing the editing interface. Customizing the admin interface in Wordpress/Drupal/etc. is often an afterthought and not very easy to do, whereas with C5 it's a foundational part of the system.
Hope that helps!
-Jordan
I have found C5 to be a better solution than wordpress for certain kinds of sites -- specifically, marketing/informational sites that you are creating a custom design for. Wordpress is primarily designed for blog sites, so if you're building a site that is mostly a blog (with a few other non-blog pages), then wordpress is definitely the best solution. And if you want to get something up quickly based on a pre-made theme, and aren't going to be customizing much, wordpress is probably a better option because of the vast number of pre-built themes available (both free and premium/paid).
But if your site revolves around pages of information (text content, images, etc.), C5 wins hands-down because it is built for this purpose. Building a C5 theme always starts with your design, and you carve out whatever content areas you want in that design with as little or as much flexibility as you want to give the user. Wordpress on the other hand gives you one content area (for the "blog post"), and one sidebar. It is possible to work around this but not as smooth or easy as C5. Also, Wordpress has this one unified back-end dashboard to manage content, whereas with C5 you are editing things on the pages themselves -- this fits the user's mental model of what the website is much more closely than wordpress. So customizing your design is a much nicer flow with C5.
The big win of C5, which is kind of a subtle point, is that because the editing interface is block-based (as opposed to one monolithic dashboard), working with content makes much more sense. You don't need to stuff everything into a WYSIWYG editor like you do with wordpress. If you're only writing blog posts which are primarily text and images, the single WYSIWYG editor is fine, but if you want different things in different places (image galleries, youtube videos, lists of file downloads, etc.), C5's model makes it much easier to grasp and to work with for end-users.
Check out the Designer Content addon in the marketplace -- this is a prime example of where the block-based interface wins out against the WYSIWYG-only interface. It lets you design a specific interface for specific kinds of content that you want styled in a specific way. So if you have a block of content that has an image, a title, and a paragraph of text, and they all need to line up a certain way, it's much easier to create a custom block (with Designer Content) which has 1 field for the title, 1 field for the image, and 1 field for the paragraph of text -- as opposed to trying to explain to users how to float images left and right, how to use headings for the title in the WYSIWYG editor, etc. (Again, this all follows an assumption that you're starting with a custom design -- if you don't have that then the benefits of C5 are not as great).
Another benefit of C5 is the way you can easily override the output of any block with custom templates -- it really lets you hone in on your custom design. Just one more way for you as the designer to set things up for your client so they can easily manage the content and have it automatically get displayed in the proper way, as opposed to having to teach them how to align things and set them up properly in the one WYSIWYG editor.
So to summarize here, I'd say the overall benefit of C5 is that when you design a site, you're not just designing the front-end but also designing the editing interface. Customizing the admin interface in Wordpress/Drupal/etc. is often an afterthought and not very easy to do, whereas with C5 it's a foundational part of the system.
Hope that helps!
-Jordan
And here's a couple of other forum threads where I've written about this:
http://www.concrete5.org/community/forums/chat/wordpress-developer-...
http://www.concrete5.org/index.php?cID=170527...
http://www.concrete5.org/community/forums/chat/wordpress-developer-...
http://www.concrete5.org/index.php?cID=170527...
I think for site building concrete5 for a blog wordpress.
But there is now a Addon to pull in wordpress blog into a Concrete site so for ease of editing and development I prefer c5.
Give it a try as a developer you will love it and once installed show your boss how to edit it and they will love it - before passing it back to you to edit :)
But there is now a Addon to pull in wordpress blog into a Concrete site so for ease of editing and development I prefer c5.
Give it a try as a developer you will love it and once installed show your boss how to edit it and they will love it - before passing it back to you to edit :)
What Jordan said + you'll be able to get more done, faster with Concrete5. Think big picture: building the site, locking it down so the client doesn't blow it up, ease of managing content, & intuitive-ness for the end user (less phone calls down the road) = more money and more completed projects/ROI for your boss.
As always, pick whatever is appropriate for the project. Don't try to use a hammer to screw in a nail ;-)
As always, pick whatever is appropriate for the project. Don't try to use a hammer to screw in a nail ;-)
I still like my toy analogy:
Wordpress = Barbie. If you wanna play with dolls, nothing is better. I
have two daughters so I'm not trying to present this as a dig, I'm
just saying - if you need to Blog, Wordpress is a very pretty and
perfect way to do it. It's the best - hands down - just like Barbie.
If you want to play princess, you are a fool to not look to Barbie. Of
course, as soon as you want to play something more than dolls, Barbie
becomes a bit useless.
Drupal = Erector Set. Yeah, if you've got the patience and know how,
you can probably build something pretty impressive. You might also end
up with a pile of bent metal and screws with some cut finger tips.
Joomla! = Gi-Joe. As best I can tell Joomla! is really geared for
running a small online community or news site and comes with a lot
more out of the box geared to do that in a specific way than concrete5
does. It's not as pretty as Wordpress to that end, but it works well
for it. That being said last time I seriously looked at this project
it was called Mambo and the architecture was pretty confusing.
concrete5 = Legos. You can build something simple, you can build
something complex. Anyone can click a few pieces together and get a
basic version of what they want, but it's still amazing what an expert
can do with the right pieces (think lego land or that crazy robotics
stuff). You can build just about anything you want out of it, and its
generally not that hard to build with. It's easy to take someone
else's legos and start clicking some of your own on there to make
something better. You are however, always dealing with little blocks.
So if you really only wanted to play with dolls, or Gi-Joes, you're
probably better off using them in the first place. (thus: screwdriver
as a hammer argument)
Apologies to everyone in every way for me actually opening my mouth
and proffering a view here. My intent was not to personally insult
you, as I've never met you and I'm not aware of the biases in your
head. I recognize that I have no doubt insulted all lovers of Barbies,
Legos, Erector Sets and Gi-Joes. I also apologize to the My Little
Pony, Clik, Transformer and other toy lovers who feel left out.
Moreover I apologize to Wordpress lovers who hate dolls, women, or
toys as a whole. I apologize to Joomla! developers who hate Mambo,
war, or toys for boys that involve war. I apologize to Cobra lovers. I
apologize to all Disney characters who in-explicitly escaped this
illuminating metaphor.
best wishes
Franz Maruna
CEO - concrete5.org
http://about.me/frz
Wordpress = Barbie. If you wanna play with dolls, nothing is better. I
have two daughters so I'm not trying to present this as a dig, I'm
just saying - if you need to Blog, Wordpress is a very pretty and
perfect way to do it. It's the best - hands down - just like Barbie.
If you want to play princess, you are a fool to not look to Barbie. Of
course, as soon as you want to play something more than dolls, Barbie
becomes a bit useless.
Drupal = Erector Set. Yeah, if you've got the patience and know how,
you can probably build something pretty impressive. You might also end
up with a pile of bent metal and screws with some cut finger tips.
Joomla! = Gi-Joe. As best I can tell Joomla! is really geared for
running a small online community or news site and comes with a lot
more out of the box geared to do that in a specific way than concrete5
does. It's not as pretty as Wordpress to that end, but it works well
for it. That being said last time I seriously looked at this project
it was called Mambo and the architecture was pretty confusing.
concrete5 = Legos. You can build something simple, you can build
something complex. Anyone can click a few pieces together and get a
basic version of what they want, but it's still amazing what an expert
can do with the right pieces (think lego land or that crazy robotics
stuff). You can build just about anything you want out of it, and its
generally not that hard to build with. It's easy to take someone
else's legos and start clicking some of your own on there to make
something better. You are however, always dealing with little blocks.
So if you really only wanted to play with dolls, or Gi-Joes, you're
probably better off using them in the first place. (thus: screwdriver
as a hammer argument)
Apologies to everyone in every way for me actually opening my mouth
and proffering a view here. My intent was not to personally insult
you, as I've never met you and I'm not aware of the biases in your
head. I recognize that I have no doubt insulted all lovers of Barbies,
Legos, Erector Sets and Gi-Joes. I also apologize to the My Little
Pony, Clik, Transformer and other toy lovers who feel left out.
Moreover I apologize to Wordpress lovers who hate dolls, women, or
toys as a whole. I apologize to Joomla! developers who hate Mambo,
war, or toys for boys that involve war. I apologize to Cobra lovers. I
apologize to all Disney characters who in-explicitly escaped this
illuminating metaphor.
best wishes
Franz Maruna
CEO - concrete5.org
http://about.me/frz
I have to apologize to all the people who don't have a sense of humor because I was laughing out loud reading frz's post :)
Love it! Funny and informative. Now I'll just go eat my Play-Doh quietly in the corner.
Can I hang out and put glue on my hands and pretend my skin is peeling off when it dries?
I may just have to print that out and stick it on my wall.
NEVER apologize to Cobra lovers! They get what they DESERVE!
"GGGGIIIII JOOOEEE!" </themesong>
"GGGGIIIII JOOOEEE!" </themesong>
COOOOOOOOOOOOOOBRAAAAA!!!!!!!!!
The only thing that would have made that better is if it had been "Pecked out on an iPhone ".
It's also really easy to build your own custom blocks and there are a lot of great blocks already written.