No custom coding sites
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I'm been thinking too often I rely on custom coding to get things done. It probably comes from my background, long ago before CMS's, before even CSS, if you didn't write code you didn't have a site, period. It wasn't that long ago actually, about 9-years. How many of you today manage to build an entire website without writing any custom code? Is that possible with C5? I've seen it done with WP and Drupal, but I haven't tried with C5 and the ability to code things was part of the appeal here. But now I'm realizing if you rely on custom code on every project, even 1 small bug can delay your project, a few bugs and your over budget. It would be nice to think we're at the point where a lot of great sites can be built without coding, or that if you think you need custom coded addons that there really is an alternative perhaps with some compromises in design.
So how many of you can say you've built sites without every coding any php? How many have built a site without coding any markup or css? Could you share examples of the sites, or the challenges you faced along the way?
Also does anyone have terminology for this? "Not coded site" sounds a little clunky... what would we call this, a "UI-built site"?
So how many of you can say you've built sites without every coding any php? How many have built a site without coding any markup or css? Could you share examples of the sites, or the challenges you faced along the way?
Also does anyone have terminology for this? "Not coded site" sounds a little clunky... what would we call this, a "UI-built site"?
This may not be as big an issue in C5 but in Drupal the thing that I think makes it tough to achieve this is most modules look terrible out of the box. Meaning you install them, pieces of content fly all over the screen. No CSS, and themes can't predict what random module you might add, so it's hit or miss with the styling and if you left things with default styling... site would just look messed right up, even though the original theme was fine for a basic page or a blog. But add a ecommerce, add a portfolio, add image gallery, all of sudden the pages are falling apart and without custom CSS the site will never reach commercial-ready quality.
Care to share your best site with no code? Free chance to show off... no judgement :)
Care to share your best site with no code? Free chance to show off... no judgement :)
Id love to share, problem is, once I figured out how this stuff all works I went crazy. Maybe this could be something as a collective project... to put together a working example of a site built ONLY with a theme and add-ons!
Closest example I could give you is my personal site:
http://nibiruannunaki.com
This is built primarily with marketplace functionality. Transparent yogurt theme, transparent content, pagelist+, Magic Data, and Universal Content Puller.
"No Judgment" is appreciated as I hardly have time to work on this site these days :D
Closest example I could give you is my personal site:
http://nibiruannunaki.com
This is built primarily with marketplace functionality. Transparent yogurt theme, transparent content, pagelist+, Magic Data, and Universal Content Puller.
"No Judgment" is appreciated as I hardly have time to work on this site these days :D
Theme + Add On/s = no coding .... if that's correct ? :)
Yes, generally speaking that's what we're thinking a pre-built theme and prebuilt addons, and it doesn't matter if that's your own theme or your own addons as long as you're not writing code for this specific website... to really be precise I'd say it means when you add up how many lines of code you wrote/changed for the entire project the answer is 0 lines. The point being I think it's common to start with a theme you built or you bought, but then at some point you make changes to the code. That's not "code-free", it's more like "code-lite", if you have to change lines of code. Even if those changes are just CSS styling, or some markup... this would not be possible to the non-developer. I'm thinking in terms of if we wrote a book "how to build a C5 site without any coding" what could we do in that context to create a finished site and what limitations would we face.
Also your questions make me think we could also divide projects into other categories like this:
A) Coding Free: no custom coding at all, so existing theme, existing addons, entire site configured in admin only.
B) Theme Coding Only: theme CSS or XHTML might be edited or have code added for customization, but no customizations to addons or any other PHP writing outside of what might be edited in the theme.
C) Custom Coded: custom code in theme and/or one or more addons.
Also your questions make me think we could also divide projects into other categories like this:
A) Coding Free: no custom coding at all, so existing theme, existing addons, entire site configured in admin only.
B) Theme Coding Only: theme CSS or XHTML might be edited or have code added for customization, but no customizations to addons or any other PHP writing outside of what might be edited in the theme.
C) Custom Coded: custom code in theme and/or one or more addons.
A lot of functionality can be achieved with addons and configuration. Many of my addons are aimed at enabling sites to achieve more while knowing less about code (inc Magic Data). There are also some sophisticated logic capabilities in some of the forms addons and you can do a lot simply by setting permissions.
Nevertheless, while no knowledge is required, I think life is much easier with some understanding. If someone understands logic in php, they have a better starting point for understanding the logic of setting permissions or creating workflows. If they understand html and css, they have a better idea what theme customisation or block design is all about.
An understanding of code usually leads to a site being better organised. Sites created by non-programmers can be very disorganised (though that is not a universal rule and some programmers are unbelievably disorganised). Its not just a c5 thing, the same happens whatever the site is created with. Its a basic mindset that experience with code instills.
Having said all that, there are plenty of straight forward brochure sites about with no addons or customisation other than a nice looking off-the-shelf theme. If a site is happy with an off-the shelf theme and a few style settings, then many sites can be built without any kind of custom code.
Nevertheless, while no knowledge is required, I think life is much easier with some understanding. If someone understands logic in php, they have a better starting point for understanding the logic of setting permissions or creating workflows. If they understand html and css, they have a better idea what theme customisation or block design is all about.
An understanding of code usually leads to a site being better organised. Sites created by non-programmers can be very disorganised (though that is not a universal rule and some programmers are unbelievably disorganised). Its not just a c5 thing, the same happens whatever the site is created with. Its a basic mindset that experience with code instills.
Having said all that, there are plenty of straight forward brochure sites about with no addons or customisation other than a nice looking off-the-shelf theme. If a site is happy with an off-the shelf theme and a few style settings, then many sites can be built without any kind of custom code.
Better organization for sure because in some cases addons for instance provide a specific way of doing things that may not fit that particular site and with no way to change them, you sort of have square functionality stuck in a round hole. A sort of rough fit where maybe it's a calendar, but it doesn't show events the way that site needs to.
What I'm wondering is how often is it a matter of just solving the problem in a different way? Meaning instead of saying "here is how we must design it" instead we say "this is what's available, here is how we could use it"?
Do you have any examples, your best example of a no-code site? Theory is one thing but I'm interested to see what have people built without any coding? I'm sure a 10-pager or less basic business site is simple enough to do... but anything more feature-rich than that?
What I'm wondering is how often is it a matter of just solving the problem in a different way? Meaning instead of saying "here is how we must design it" instead we say "this is what's available, here is how we could use it"?
Do you have any examples, your best example of a no-code site? Theory is one thing but I'm interested to see what have people built without any coding? I'm sure a 10-pager or less basic business site is simple enough to do... but anything more feature-rich than that?
I've been pondering this subject all evening now and I'm stumbling on the "no code" aspect when it comes to, as you say, "add-on's you've created", being used for the no-code site. We have to remember this "book" would be directed at designers looking to mash core capabilities to accomplish things you wouldn't expect.
add-on's i've created will not apply to all users and we must remember they are limited to the packages available in the marketplace. I've got lots of modified stuff not in the marketplace that I only have access to.
"this is what's available, here is how we could use it"
I could show you a good couple of handfulls of quirks between add-ons you probably never would have expected to work or even thought about. John can vouch for some of these ;) If you're interested I'd be happy to share some of them, one by one as they come back to me as to what they were and how I got them working. Private message me and we can get to talking!
add-on's i've created will not apply to all users and we must remember they are limited to the packages available in the marketplace. I've got lots of modified stuff not in the marketplace that I only have access to.
"this is what's available, here is how we could use it"
I could show you a good couple of handfulls of quirks between add-ons you probably never would have expected to work or even thought about. John can vouch for some of these ;) If you're interested I'd be happy to share some of them, one by one as they come back to me as to what they were and how I got them working. Private message me and we can get to talking!
You're going to run into issues with things like hooking events and such, but I think as a whole, building a site completely with add-ons alone minus some style is feasible! It boils down to there being add-ons to accomplish everything you need...