C5 is great but....
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I need to add a blog on my site. I run a PR company and I need to have a good CMS. C5 is one of the best I've found for what I need but I need the ability to have a weekly blog that's hosted on the same site.
I would think any good CMS would have the ability to blog as arranging content is the main purpose of a CMS to begin with. I've seen there is at least one other thread about blogging, but it really didn't seem to get the focus it needed so this is my attempt to find out if there is a good workaround for this issue or if someone has found a way or made a block for blogging.
I would think any good CMS would have the ability to blog as arranging content is the main purpose of a CMS to begin with. I've seen there is at least one other thread about blogging, but it really didn't seem to get the focus it needed so this is my attempt to find out if there is a good workaround for this issue or if someone has found a way or made a block for blogging.
I feel like it would be a great move for C5 users to create a few blog-like templates, it would definitely pull in some people form that demographic who are interested in the new interface, and people then could lose their inhibitons about joining up!
There is no easy way to unpublish content for dummies by default which is a bummer as I deal with lots of dummies.
When you add a page - it seems to be live by default, unless you mess around with permissions on the parent page and inheritance etc.
What is the best way to have it unpublished by default? Set up a custom attribute? is_live etc? or would this conflict with publish dates - auto naves etc?
When you add a page - it seems to be live by default, unless you mess around with permissions on the parent page and inheritance etc.
What is the best way to have it unpublished by default? Set up a custom attribute? is_live etc? or would this conflict with publish dates - auto naves etc?
You make an excellent point about what blogging really is and I totally understand your point. I want to be able to give other users that are not admins an easy way to write articles and have them updated for our clients without having to create a new page in the way you described. Wordpress is great for that purpose but I really like where I see C5 going and it's one of the best looking and quickest setups of a CMS that I've had the pleasure of working with.
I don't want to ignore the dashboard at all I just think that building an interface that give the user a quick way to put up an article and retain that on the same website without having to jump through any hoops would be a positive.
Take for example Elgg that I have installed onhttp://agzonline.com They have groups,blogs and other things that may be considered more on the social networking scene, but the tools are really useful and can add a lot to a site to keep content fresh. That's really what I want.
I don't want to ignore the dashboard at all I just think that building an interface that give the user a quick way to put up an article and retain that on the same website without having to jump through any hoops would be a positive.
Take for example Elgg that I have installed onhttp://agzonline.com They have groups,blogs and other things that may be considered more on the social networking scene, but the tools are really useful and can add a lot to a site to keep content fresh. That's really what I want.
We really do need a simple way to setup a blog through C5. Most of the other CMS's out there offer it.
It's not about "bloggy" templates it's about interface and features. Repeating regions, comments, rss output.
We have a lot of blocks for a lot of things...but a blog clock would be killer. Just look at how many post there are of people asking for this.
It's not about "bloggy" templates it's about interface and features. Repeating regions, comments, rss output.
We have a lot of blocks for a lot of things...but a blog clock would be killer. Just look at how many post there are of people asking for this.
I think you agree that c5 doesn't have the functionality of WordPress and should never have all that stuff since it's a CMS and not a blog software.
If you're talking about a simple blog, why not use the page_list block? You would have to use a couple of page attributes and a custom page_list template to display them in a blog style way, but with some php knowledge this is done in less than an hour.
There are still a few things missing you might want, but you can easily build things like an archive, category list, author list and stuff like that.
It takes a while but the C5 MVC system allows you to build what you need. It's not there right know because no one really needed it that badly. You can be sure about that fact that I would build all these things if I just need them. Unfortunately (for you) I don't right now..
But hey guys, it's open source! You're getting it for free.. With most (commercial) software you don't get updates for free too but in this case you have a system that lets you build what you need..
If you're talking about a simple blog, why not use the page_list block? You would have to use a couple of page attributes and a custom page_list template to display them in a blog style way, but with some php knowledge this is done in less than an hour.
There are still a few things missing you might want, but you can easily build things like an archive, category list, author list and stuff like that.
It takes a while but the C5 MVC system allows you to build what you need. It's not there right know because no one really needed it that badly. You can be sure about that fact that I would build all these things if I just need them. Unfortunately (for you) I don't right now..
But hey guys, it's open source! You're getting it for free.. With most (commercial) software you don't get updates for free too but in this case you have a system that lets you build what you need..
Ha. Well deep down, part of me agrees with Remo.... Certainly about the 'go build it yourself' aspect. ;)
Frankly, I really think its a learning issue. I plan to incorporate a "blog" along with a number of other new examples in an updated demo install - that should help an awful lot.
yes, we have actually built wordpress light into previous versions of concrete because we had clients that wanted to specifically open blogging functionality to partners without forcing them through the in-context editing.. It was.. okay. worked. Can't say it was as nice as wordpress and I wonder if the people who were exposed to it were as impressed with what concrete5 can do as you all are. ;)
I guess part of me feels like if we don't get you out of the "i goto the backend to change stuff on the front end" mode of thinking pretty quickly, we're not going to win you over. As you point out, there are already thousands of CMS's that have a blog interface in their dashboard - im not jumping up and down to be # 1001.
I recognize it can be a pain to create a page from scratch and fill it out, but I think that points to a bigger need/possibility from the dashboard.. and a separate conversation for sure.
I recognize the need for tags on pages and a block to search/cloud them.. that REEKS of 3rd party add-on so some bright PHP person should go do it and sell it in the marketplace.
I recognize the very rare occasion to provide a controlled interface to a group of 3rd party "blog" contributors in a site. Something where you get a form to edit/add instead of the toolbar. You can actually do that pretty easily with the MVC architecture and a single page as Remo is pointing out. I think its just a matter of time before some 3rd party developer puts a few pages together to handle it and sells or gives it away in the marketplace as well.
Unless someone can tell me something new - that's what the plan is today.
Frankly, I really think its a learning issue. I plan to incorporate a "blog" along with a number of other new examples in an updated demo install - that should help an awful lot.
yes, we have actually built wordpress light into previous versions of concrete because we had clients that wanted to specifically open blogging functionality to partners without forcing them through the in-context editing.. It was.. okay. worked. Can't say it was as nice as wordpress and I wonder if the people who were exposed to it were as impressed with what concrete5 can do as you all are. ;)
I guess part of me feels like if we don't get you out of the "i goto the backend to change stuff on the front end" mode of thinking pretty quickly, we're not going to win you over. As you point out, there are already thousands of CMS's that have a blog interface in their dashboard - im not jumping up and down to be # 1001.
I recognize it can be a pain to create a page from scratch and fill it out, but I think that points to a bigger need/possibility from the dashboard.. and a separate conversation for sure.
I recognize the need for tags on pages and a block to search/cloud them.. that REEKS of 3rd party add-on so some bright PHP person should go do it and sell it in the marketplace.
I recognize the very rare occasion to provide a controlled interface to a group of 3rd party "blog" contributors in a site. Something where you get a form to edit/add instead of the toolbar. You can actually do that pretty easily with the MVC architecture and a single page as Remo is pointing out. I think its just a matter of time before some 3rd party developer puts a few pages together to handle it and sells or gives it away in the marketplace as well.
Unless someone can tell me something new - that's what the plan is today.
..just wait until I find a customer who needs this ;-)
Thank you Franz (and the rest of the concrete5 team) for sticking to your vision for concrete5. The greatest thing about c5 is it's simplicity - both in developing and editing sites. This is what sets it apart from all the other CMS's out there. And it is a CMS - not blogging software. I appreciate your commitment to keeping c5 simple (and easy for the average user to edit) by choosing not to incorporate every feature that people want or think c5 needs into the core.
Yer making me blush.. its easy to be the benevolent dictator when all the decisions are obvious, somewhat less so when you've got to stick to your guns..
Just to be 100% clear...
I /do/ see the potential need for a blogging administration interface somewhere. I only think this is a real need if you're running a site that has A) stuff to it beyond a blog (or just go use wordpress please) and B) multiple blog contributors who don't have any interest in running other parts of the site.
Say you're setting up a news site about Archery. You have all sorts of content, but you want to have contributing authors whose only interest is submitting blog posts. They're not technically very savvy and you don't want to create any hoops for them to jump through. In this case, if it were my project, i would spec a custom interface (not even in dashboad) where they could go after logging in and submit stories. That interface would make a page with the read flag off for unregistered users, and send me an email saying i had something to approve. The reason I would do this custom is because the problem is custom. Do i want that level of moderation/approval or no? Where are these posts going? etc..
c5mix, you have it right. For me to have my team put a "blogging solution" inside the core of concrete5 would be like selling you a box of legos only to have it open up and the parts for a plastic model airplane falling out.
Just to be 100% clear...
I /do/ see the potential need for a blogging administration interface somewhere. I only think this is a real need if you're running a site that has A) stuff to it beyond a blog (or just go use wordpress please) and B) multiple blog contributors who don't have any interest in running other parts of the site.
Say you're setting up a news site about Archery. You have all sorts of content, but you want to have contributing authors whose only interest is submitting blog posts. They're not technically very savvy and you don't want to create any hoops for them to jump through. In this case, if it were my project, i would spec a custom interface (not even in dashboad) where they could go after logging in and submit stories. That interface would make a page with the read flag off for unregistered users, and send me an email saying i had something to approve. The reason I would do this custom is because the problem is custom. Do i want that level of moderation/approval or no? Where are these posts going? etc..
c5mix, you have it right. For me to have my team put a "blogging solution" inside the core of concrete5 would be like selling you a box of legos only to have it open up and the parts for a plastic model airplane falling out.
I don't think anyone is asking for blogging software there after all is Wordpress which is perfect for a blog. Concrete is a great platform that's simple and easy to use but more powerful than most other CMS software on the market. I don't think the core of C5 should change but there needs to me a module or block that can be added that give the ability to stick a blog on your site if you have a need for it.
I for instance want to use it for a gaming site I have but need some very non-technical staff and guest writers to be able to post reviews and news. These people don't need access to the core of the site. They need to be able to log-in and write. Other than that C5 is a great system.
On the build it yourself thing are you to assume that all people that would be using C5 would have php knowledge and have the time to actually build things for it. The appeal of open source is the cost=Free. You can get most of the stuff you want and usually pay for the rest. I don't have an issue employing someone to write code for me since I'm not a php developer nor do I want to be or have the time to be. That's were at times i feel the disconnect is in technical communities. I have a core business and need to focus my efforts there not on building modules for websites I manage. Just like I don't think the C5 core need to be focused on anything else it's great the way it is.
I just happen to have enough understanding to get C5 setup and do some simple edits other than that I'm no coder. I think one of the reasons people use CMS's is they want a one stop solution they don't have to build functionality into.
I for instance want to use it for a gaming site I have but need some very non-technical staff and guest writers to be able to post reviews and news. These people don't need access to the core of the site. They need to be able to log-in and write. Other than that C5 is a great system.
On the build it yourself thing are you to assume that all people that would be using C5 would have php knowledge and have the time to actually build things for it. The appeal of open source is the cost=Free. You can get most of the stuff you want and usually pay for the rest. I don't have an issue employing someone to write code for me since I'm not a php developer nor do I want to be or have the time to be. That's were at times i feel the disconnect is in technical communities. I have a core business and need to focus my efforts there not on building modules for websites I manage. Just like I don't think the C5 core need to be focused on anything else it's great the way it is.
I just happen to have enough understanding to get C5 setup and do some simple edits other than that I'm no coder. I think one of the reasons people use CMS's is they want a one stop solution they don't have to build functionality into.
i agree. I think the challenge may really be something like a "simple edit builder" that lets a site owner create forms that they can use to let people edit/create a page with the right permissions..
in earlier versions of concrete5 we had a "wizard" permission that if it was set on for your group, the page would try to look for some PHP files in a separate spot instead of giving you the editing toolbar when you put the page in edit mode. We did that to build all the all the profile & page management stuff onhttp://indie911.com for example.
in concrete5, we got rid of that and introduced static pages as a more flexible way to deal with many problems, including this.
I hope someone creates a killer blog editing interface and set of custom templates that anyone could download from the marketplace...
..the real question is it worth money?
I wonder, perhaps not.
in earlier versions of concrete5 we had a "wizard" permission that if it was set on for your group, the page would try to look for some PHP files in a separate spot instead of giving you the editing toolbar when you put the page in edit mode. We did that to build all the all the profile & page management stuff onhttp://indie911.com for example.
in concrete5, we got rid of that and introduced static pages as a more flexible way to deal with many problems, including this.
I hope someone creates a killer blog editing interface and set of custom templates that anyone could download from the marketplace...
..the real question is it worth money?
I wonder, perhaps not.
The indie911 site is exactly what I'm talking about. Page and profile management would be great. I need a site just like the one you built with page permissions and profiles.
I do however like the static pages and if I could create the same look and function of the indie911 site with C5 my problems would be solved.
Is that all C5 stuff for that site?
I do however like the static pages and if I could create the same look and function of the indie911 site with C5 my problems would be solved.
Is that all C5 stuff for that site?
It's like concrete v3. Very custom at this point
Yeah we can do that for you,, got any money?
;)
Yeah we can do that for you,, got any money?
;)
Love it! Looks really good and do really like C5. Sure got a little bit. If you can do it for $49.95 in like three easy payments.
I haven't used c5's applications, but I was thinking the apps should have some similar role...
You see c5 as a framework too, rather a simple CMS. This is very cool AND logical.
C5 is like a replacement to pure PHP. It manages pages, links, contents, themes, etc., and it provides an object-oriented view of the underlying stuff.
So, if I were to build a blog, I'd go like this: create a posting page with title, summary, keywords, text, and everything, and when user posts the form, I'd run a script like this: (psuedo-code)
1. Create a new page
2. Set the title
3. Add some blocks according to the configuration
4. Add the main text as a content block
5. Add the page in the c5 pages
And if the framework has enough support for it (I'm not sure about this), I'd pack my main pages, setup scripts, permission models and all into a single package that can be installed with a click anywhere in the site.
Blogging support does NOT belong to the core of C5, neither is Forum support.
Don't you guys use the same approach in this forums?
You see c5 as a framework too, rather a simple CMS. This is very cool AND logical.
C5 is like a replacement to pure PHP. It manages pages, links, contents, themes, etc., and it provides an object-oriented view of the underlying stuff.
So, if I were to build a blog, I'd go like this: create a posting page with title, summary, keywords, text, and everything, and when user posts the form, I'd run a script like this: (psuedo-code)
1. Create a new page
2. Set the title
3. Add some blocks according to the configuration
4. Add the main text as a content block
5. Add the page in the c5 pages
And if the framework has enough support for it (I'm not sure about this), I'd pack my main pages, setup scripts, permission models and all into a single package that can be installed with a click anywhere in the site.
Blogging support does NOT belong to the core of C5, neither is Forum support.
Don't you guys use the same approach in this forums?
yup, you basically got it.. you can package up all sorts of stuff that will (with 5.3) even be installable by a noob without FTP.
I wouldn't try to compare concrete5 to a super appy framework like symfony or zend - but there's a lot of similar ideas in it. To me it comes down to a simple question. Is there content management? If you're just building a banking application, you can probably find a framework with less bloat and just as good treatment of users and permissions. However if there's a point where some staff will want to be able to point click and edit a page, concrete5 is the perfect choice as it is much cleaner than a drupal or joomla like solution.
I wouldn't try to compare concrete5 to a super appy framework like symfony or zend - but there's a lot of similar ideas in it. To me it comes down to a simple question. Is there content management? If you're just building a banking application, you can probably find a framework with less bloat and just as good treatment of users and permissions. However if there's a point where some staff will want to be able to point click and edit a page, concrete5 is the perfect choice as it is much cleaner than a drupal or joomla like solution.
http://www.concrete5.org/index.php?cID=1754...
second:
It would be really helpful if we could actually define what a blog was beyond "needing one"..
From a programmer's prospective, all a blog is is a list of detail pages with some summary content, linked to in reverse chronilogical order.
You can build that easily with c5 today. Make a page, call it "blog". Start adding new pages below it, make the title of the page the title of your blog post. put the first few lines in the short description for the page. Now put a page list block in the main content area of the "blog" page and you're done. Obviously you can do a lot more around formatting if you're willing to get under the hood.. But from an engineer's prospective, that's a blog..
Now I recognize that 'blogging' is really more about the interface and experience than the data model. I use wordpress and tumblr because they're both very good at what they do. If all i need out of a website is a blog, or a feed of pictures & videos, I'm likely to keep choosing those solutions. I like the way tumblr gives me a link in my toolbar I can just hit on any page i find interesting out there and it's automagically posted. I like that wordpress is well known across the web, search engines seem to play well with it, and i think having two sites linking to each other really helps in SEO..
(btw: seehttp://franzmaruna.com andhttp://concretethestudio.com)
So here's where I get stuck when new folk come asking for "a blog".. I see two advantages to wordpress over c5 for running a strict blog.
1) the UI.
Way more traditional than c5, you goto the backend and make a post there.. you can easily deal with half written posts and publish/unpublish stuff. There's not a lot of room to get creative with what goes on the side of a particular blog post - but I don't need that. There's a centralized way to deal with comments and spam.. it works.
2) the SEO nature.. because they've been around, the big 3 blogging platforms seem to get good placement for their content in search engines...
Well I'm not sure what to do about that in c5.
Can we make something similar to the wordpress backend in the dashboard? Sure, and in fact we did for clients with concrete version 4. The reality is tho it's always going to be an afterthought vs. the attention that wordpress's backend gets. Moreover, aren't we losing the chance to train the potential poster on how easy it is to edit ANYTHING in c5 by telling them "oh don't worry about that toolbar, YOU go over here and use this predictable old half assed interface here..."?
regarding point 2 - it is what it is.. couple of years from now i hope search engines get excited when they see our URL structure and code too...
so what i need to spend more time on this issue (which i'm eager to do because I do recognize it's a stumper for new folk) is a real sense of what the value is in blogging. Is it the UI? Is it the SEO? Is it just we need some more "bloggy" templates for the page list?
by all means, discuss.